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Thread: Calling All Budgies - the Red Sox 2020 payroll thread

  1. #31
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    I would not be shocked if Benni is moved, to Offset a Higher priced guy.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    I’m getting some good laughs here reading this thread.

    The white Sox aren’t dealing their prized pitcher in Kopech for a year of control of a 33 yr old DH. Not happening. Chavis and Duran don’t sweeten the pot enough.

    Choi’s bat has been perfectly fine. Last two seasons, .800+ OPS and OBP’s over .370. Heck, the 37 yr old also stole 15 bases last year. He’s not trash, but he’s also a DH right now. No reason for the Sox to go after him

    The Price for Myers idea is fine for the Sox, but what does it do for SD who are trying to shed payroll to make a run at Strasburg (SD State alum)?

    Listen, Price is untradeable without the Sox eating an exorbitant amount of money. With his injury issues 2 of the last 3 years, his sparkling personality and worsening production when on the field, you’re not offloading his contract without doing something dumb.

    The best way to slip under the budget is to deal off JBJ for prospects and deal off Betts for at least one major leaguer who can fill one of the holes in the big league club. That’ll then allow the Sox about $33 mil to spend to fill the other holes
    Are they?

    It does make me wonder why they dealt Eric Lauer ($560K) for Zach Davies (proj 2020 salary $4mill). Or first year arb Hunter Renfroe (Proj salary $2.2mill) for Tommy Pham (projected salary ($8.6mill).

    Maybe Preller doesn't know "shed" means "subtract"? Maybe he thinks he's already "shed" close to $10mill in salary, thinking "this is easy!"



    Also, if Cano was tradable, Price is trdable. But it's a question of "should" over Eovaldi. Teams were lining up to pay Eovaldi very close to what Boston offered him one season ago. And while he was hurt, I really doubt any of them were surprised by it. It really just takes one GM. Hopefully not the one we just fired...

  3. #33
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    The Mariners reportedly want to move Dee Gordon to clear 2B for Shed Long (Or "Add Long", as AJ Preller calls him).

    Gordon has an AAV of $10mill. If the Mariners would take Eovaldi for him, it's a move that would save the Sox $7.4mill towards the luxury tax, fill 2B, and merely bump up the date where the Sox need to find Eovaldi's replacement for the rotation.


    Yes, harmony, I know the simulator would reject the move. But the simulator rejects most trades. Would DiPoto reject it?


    Note: What has to be considered for Seattle is that Gordon isn't very good, but I greatly prefer him over Rougned Odor...
    Last edited by notin; 12-08-2019 at 11:12 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    I’m getting some good laughs here reading this thread.

    The white Sox aren’t dealing their prized pitcher in Kopech for a year of control of a 33 yr old DH. Not happening. Chavis and Duran don’t sweeten the pot enough.

    Choi’s bat has been perfectly fine. Last two seasons, .800+ OPS and OBP’s over .370. Heck, the 37 yr old also stole 15 bases last year. He’s not trash, but he’s also a DH right now. No reason for the Sox to go after him

    The Price for Myers idea is fine for the Sox, but what does it do for SD who are trying to shed payroll to make a run at Strasburg (SD State alum)?

    Listen, Price is untradeable without the Sox eating an exorbitant amount of money. With his injury issues 2 of the last 3 years, his sparkling personality and worsening production when on the field, you’re not offloading his contract without doing something dumb.

    The best way to slip under the budget is to deal off JBJ for prospects and deal off Betts for at least one major leaguer who can fill one of the holes in the big league club. That’ll then allow the Sox about $33 mil to spend to fill the other holes
    Taking back Myers is "eating an exorbitant amount of money." We could even pay more towards it or add someone like Chavis or Walden.

    I think you are right on the Kopech deal, but you may be selling Chavis & Duran short.

    The Choo idea was to help balance the money Texas would be taking on with Eovaldi or Price with the idea that we'd trade Martinez, so he could DH. Yes, we likely don't get Kopech for JD, but we could get something and now be way under the tax line. This would allow Bloom to do his magic finding under-the-radar gems.

    Right now, he has no wiggle room to sign even the lowest paid free agents or to trade for anyone making even $1M over min wage.

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Taking back Myers is "eating an exorbitant amount of money." We could even pay more towards it or add someone like Chavis or Walden.




    Taking back Myers might represent one of the largest contract eats ever by the salary dumping team. When the Mariners traded Cano (owed $120mill) they took back Jay Bruce ($28mill) and Anthony Swarzak ($8.5mill) to balance out the deal. Myers is owed about double that total, while Price is owed less than Cano was.

    And WTF is jacko's "What does this deal do for San Diego" talk? Seriously? Forget the crap about them trying to clear cash for Strasburg. It's clearly not happening, and they clearly are not even trying to do so.

    Price might be expensive but dealing him for Myers means the Padres get a 2-2.5 fWAR pitcher for a net cost of $9mill per season. Basically it's like getting a slightly cheaper Kyle Gibson (2.6 fWAR season and got $31mill over 3 years). San Diego does immensely well in this deal. The question is - other than to get under the limit, why would Boston make this trade?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Taking back Myers might represent one of the largest contract eats ever by the salary dumping team. When the Mariners traded Cano (owed $120mill) they took back Jay Bruce ($28mill) and Anthony Swarzak ($8.5mill) to balance out the deal. Myers is owed about double that total, while Price is owed less than Cano was.

    And WTF is jacko's "What does this deal do for San Diego" talk? Seriously? Forget the crap about them trying to clear cash for Strasburg. It's clearly not happening, and they clearly are not even trying to do so.

    Price might be expensive but dealing him for Myers means the Padres get a 2-2.5 fWAR pitcher for a net cost of $9mill per season. Basically it's like getting a slightly cheaper Kyle Gibson (2.6 fWAR season and got $31mill over 3 years). San Diego does immensely well in this deal. The question is - other than to get under the limit, why would Boston make this trade?
    It's all based on Jacko's idea that all Sox pitchers are doomed to a zero or below WAR in 2020.

    If Price was a Yankee, he would not want to trade Price for Myers.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    It's all based on Jacko's idea that all Sox pitchers are doomed to a zero or below WAR in 2020.

    If Price was a Yankee, he would not want to trade Price for Myers.
    If Price was a Yankee, he might be as good as the immortal Jordan Montgomery...

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Are they?

    It does make me wonder why they dealt Eric Lauer ($560K) for Zach Davies (proj 2020 salary $4mill). Or first year arb Hunter Renfroe (Proj salary $2.2mill) for Tommy Pham (projected salary ($8.6mill).

    Maybe Preller doesn't know "shed" means "subtract"? Maybe he thinks he's already "shed" close to $10mill in salary, thinking "this is easy!"



    Also, if Cano was tradable, Price is trdable. But it's a question of "should" over Eovaldi. Teams were lining up to pay Eovaldi very close to what Boston offered him one season ago. And while he was hurt, I really doubt any of them were surprised by it. It really just takes one GM. Hopefully not the one we just fired...
    Cano was dealt because the Mets were involved and had a rookie GM. The Mets are being sold, so let’s see if they throw money around.

    Also, Cano was coming off a good, albeit PED shortened, season. 3 WAR in 80 games. Pretty solid and clearly the Mets expected something from him rather than using their financial wealth to absorb the hit.

    As for Preller, yes, he’s added some salary to help his squad, but why would he add $30 mil guaranteed and get limited return? If he’s going to spend $30 mil, he’d be better served breaking it up

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    It's all based on Jacko's idea that all Sox pitchers are doomed to a zero or below WAR in 2020.

    If Price was a Yankee, he would not want to trade Price for Myers.
    If Price was a Yankee, I’d understand that we are stuck with him. The first time he shows anything positive, I put out feelers and would be willing to eat up to half the contract

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    If Price was a Yankee, I’d understand that we are stuck with him. The first time he shows anything positive, I put out feelers and would be willing to eat up to half the contract
    Taking back Myers = eating over 2/3 of the contract.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Cano was dealt because the Mets were involved and had a rookie GM. The Mets are being sold, so let’s see if they throw money around.

    Also, Cano was coming off a good, albeit PED shortened, season. 3 WAR in 80 games. Pretty solid and clearly the Mets expected something from him rather than using their financial wealth to absorb the hit.

    As for Preller, yes, he’s added some salary to help his squad, but why would he add $30 mil guaranteed and get limited return? If he’s going to spend $30 mil, he’d be better served breaking it up
    If he trades Myers back, he’s only adding a little over $9mill per year for Price.

    Also, saying Cano was really good because he was cheating might not be the selling point you’re arguing it is...

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    If Price was a Yankee, I’d understand that we are stuck with him. The first time he shows anything positive, I put out feelers and would be willing to eat up to half the contract
    It's not like we don't see the downside of Price. He's been showing something positive, too. 2017 was the only year, he gave us basically nothing

    He's pitched 283 innings in the past 2 years at a 6.2 bWAR and 4.7 fWAR. While the IP'd are not great, they still have provided value, and I'm not even counting the 2018 playoff performances. (He's over 307 IP counting the playoffs.)

    Your guy, James Paxton has about 310 IP the last 2 years combined at a 5.1 bWAR and 7.2 fWAR, and had a worse IP record, other than 2017, than Price beforehand. (Even 2017, Price gave us a 1.5 or 1.6 WAR.)

    Taking on Myers's contract would offset enough of Price's deal to make it worth it for SD, despite what you think. Myers gives them very little. He's avergaed a 1.0 WAR the last 3 years.

    This type of deal makes sense to both sides.
    Last edited by moonslav59; 12-08-2019 at 01:50 PM.
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  13. #43
    “My guy” Paxton is on a 1 year deal at about 1/3 the AAV of Price.

    Also, comparing the two is just stupid and you’re better than that. Price is on an untradeable contract, is 34 years old and is coming off wrist surgery on his throwing wrist. Paxton is on a one year contract, is 3 years younger and has outperformed Price the last 3 seasons. Price has averaged about 2WAR the last 3 years. Paxton has averaged nearly 4WAR per over the same span

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    “My guy” Paxton is on a 1 year deal at about 1/3 the AAV of Price.

    Also, comparing the two is just stupid and you’re better than that. Price is on an untradeable contract, is 34 years old and is coming off wrist surgery on his throwing wrist. Paxton is on a one year contract, is 3 years younger and has outperformed Price the last 3 seasons. Price has averaged about 2WAR the last 3 years. Paxton has averaged nearly 4WAR per over the same span
    My point was about value. Paxton, who you gushed over has done about the same as Price, who you act like Price is valueless. You claim he has to do something positive to be tradable. He's been Paxton for 2 years.

    I'm fully aware of the contract disparity, but I also know how much Myers is owed. He's owed $61M over the next 3 years. That's 2/3 of what Price makes and all that SD cares about- that and gaining a 2-3 WAR SP'er for about $10M a year.

    From our perspective, the luxury tax savings would be way more than $10-11M a year x 3. Myers's luxury tax hit is just $13.8M/yr. That means nothing to SD but a hell of a lot to us. We'd save over $17M a year on the lux tax.

    It's not unreasonable to think SD would pay Price $36M/3 (the difference between him and Myers) and we'd take Myers to fill our 1B hole while saving $17M x 3 years on the tax budget.

    It's a match made in heaven. (BTW, I also suggested we could kick in a little cash and still make out.)
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    It's not like we don't see the downside of Price. He's been showing something positive, too. 2017 was the only year, he gave us basically nothing

    He's pitched 283 innings in the past 2 years at a 6.2 bWAR and 4.7 fWAR. While the IP'd are not great, they still have provided value, and I'm not even counting the 2018 playoff performances. (He's over 307 IP counting the playoffs.)

    Your guy, James Paxton has about 310 IP the last 2 years combined at a 5.1 bWAR and 7.2 fWAR, and had a worse IP record, other than 2017, than Price beforehand. (Even 2017, Price gave us a 1.5 or 1.6 WAR.)

    Taking on Myers's contract would offset enough of Price's deal to make it worth it for SD, despite what you think. Myers gives them very little. He's avergaed a 1.0 WAR the last 3 years.

    This type of deal makes sense to both sides.
    If I’m Preller, I’ve not only already offered Myers for Price, I’m checking in daily with Bloom to see if he’s changed his mind. But I’m not at the point of sweetening the pot yet.

    And if I’m Bloom, that’s exactly what I’m waiting for...

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