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Thread: 2020 HOF Vote Tracker

  1. #136
    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    also....it is a bit premature to grant Xander a spot in the HoF but DerekJackson might be right about Xander being a HoFer. maybe Xander is already a first ballot HoFer? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  2. #137
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    He was 17th out of 38 SSs with 300+ innings in UZR/150. That's middle of the road.

    He was last in DRS (38th).

    That averages out to about 22.5 out of 38. Bottom half to bottom third- just like I said, but I like to use 3+ year sample sizes, especially for fielding.

    Since 2015, he places 19th out of 37 with 2,000+ innings. He's last in DRS, but he has more than double the innings of some of the other ones near the bottom.

    He's bottom third, IMO, but I wouldn't argue with anyone who says he's near 50% or near bottom 20-25%.

    Of the SSs from Jeter's era, he placed 36th out 42 with 5,000+ innings in UZR/150.

    Here's the shocker: -152 DRS! The next guy is at -84, then -69 and -62.

    Jeter was clearly bottom 10% or even bottom 5%, or as I think- the worst of my lifetime.

    Bogey is no even close to being the worst, except in one metric.
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  3. #138
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekJackson View Post
    My point still stands.

    You wouldn't vote for Jeter as a HOF'er because of his defense, despite the fact that he's 6th all time in hits, and is the ONLY player in the history of the game with at least 250 career homers, a .300 lifetime batting average, 350 steals and 3,000 hits.

    Yet your SS, a below average fielder at best, is a "building block".

    Yeah, sure, no bias at all.
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  4. #139
    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekJackson View Post
    My point still stands.

    You wouldn't vote for Jeter as a HOF'er because of his defense, despite the fact that he's 6th all time in hits, and is the ONLY player in the history of the game with at least 250 career homers, a .300 lifetime batting average, 350 steals and 3,000 hits.

    Yet your SS, a below average fielder at best, is a "building block".

    Yeah, sure, no bias at all.
    he was an offensive stat compiler pure and simple. he slapped the ball to right field. if he played anywhere but YS he would have been out of baseball in 3 years. an average player at best that benefited from George's overspending and the miami clinics. some legends are written by ability. jeters wasnt.
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  5. #140
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekJackson View Post
    My point still stands.

    You wouldn't vote for Jeter as a HOF'er because of his defense, despite the fact that he's 6th all time in hits, and is the ONLY player in the history of the game with at least 250 career homers, a .300 lifetime batting average, 350 steals and 3,000 hits.

    Yet your SS, a below average fielder at best, is a "building block".

    Yeah, sure, no bias at all.
    What point? That Bogey is the worst? He's the worst in one category/metric and middle of the road in just about all the rest.

    Also...

    1) I never said Bogey was HOF. I never said I'd keep him at SS for the rest of his time in Boston, either.

    2) I said I would not vote for Jeter on the first ballot and probably wouldn't at all.

    3) I didn't even think Cal Ripkin deserved to be in the HOF.

    4) I don't think Schilling does either- so much for "bias." I didn't think Rice belonged, either.
    Last edited by moonslav59; 02-07-2020 at 04:16 PM.
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  6. #141
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    he was an offensive stat compiler pure and simple. he slapped the ball to right field. if he played anywhere but YS he would have been out of baseball in 3 years. an average player at best that benefited from George's overspending and the miami clinics. some legends are written by ability. jeters wasnt.
    The guy played like 100 years. 3,000 hits / 100 is just 30 a year. (LOL)

    He was a good hitter- very good for a SS.

    He ran the bases well.

    He sucked on defense at maybe THE most important defensive position in baseball. Had he moved to 3B, like he should have (or 2B), when ARod joined the Yanks. I'd probably feel much differently.
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  7. #142
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekJackson View Post
    Yes, because average players end up 6th on the all time hit list.

    And there's plenty of "average" players who hit for a lifetime average of .300+ over a 20yr career.

    SMH
    It's the 20 years not the .300 that is amazing.

    Besides, using BA is SOooooo 70's.

    His .817 OPS is not amazing.
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  8. #143
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekJackson View Post
    So you don't think it's very tough to hit over .300 lifetime with a 20yr career?

    I'd be curious to see how many players have done that in the history of the game.
    Yes, it's very tough, but I'm not big on longevity stats like 3,000 hits, and .300 alone is not enough to get to the HOF.

    The 350 SBs helps him be close.

    His selfishness hurt.
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  9. #144
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekJackson View Post
    Nobody said .300 alone should.

    But as I said, when you are the only player in the history of the game to hit .300 with 3000+ hits, 250+ HR's and 300+ steals that's pretty amazing considering how many players have played the game.
    Yes, but it's a result of 20 years playing for most of those stats.

    Jeter is not known for HRs, yet you list HRs as a reason he should make it.

    Look, certainly .300 over 20 years is a point in favor of the HOF. 3,000 hits over 20 years is just repeating the .300 BA stat. It's not really anything new, except for the longevity factor. 350 SBs and 250 Hrs over 20 years are not, IMO. Sorry.

    It's not that I'm saying longevity has no value: it does, but I just don't weigh it as heavily as most do. I realize I'm in a minority, but I think I've been consistent over the year.

    He stayed healthy. Is there an award for that? I'm all for it.
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  10. #145
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekJackson View Post
    So if it's no big deal, why has there only been 1 player to accomplish it?
    So, that's the only criteria?

    Hand select a few categories, in which all but BA are based on longevity, and ignore all the rest.

    What if he made 200 errors a year?

    What if he missed 80 plays a year that plus defenders would make?

    What if he played 2B or 3B like he should have?

    His .817 career OPS ties him with Brian Daubauch for 380th out of over 3600 qualified players in MLB history. It's not even top 10%.

    His .310 BA ties at #95. That's about top 1/35th. Impressive.

    His ISO of .130 makes it a joke to make 250+ HRs part of a qualifier criteria. I think .130 is about 1500th out of 3600+ players- barely top 50%.

    Last edited by moonslav59; 02-07-2020 at 06:35 PM.
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