Register now to remove this ad

Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 149

Thread: 2020 Prospects

  1. #16
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    65,866
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Obviously not highly competitive, unless we max spending every year and never reset.

    We need a farm to stay highly competitive for longer stretches.
    As long as I've been a fan, the Sox prospect has more often been barren than full. It's not the greatest way to do business, but it can work for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  2. #17
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    80,024
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    As long as I've been a fan, the Sox prospect has more often been barren than full. It's not the greatest way to do business, but it can work for a while.
    Since 2003, there has been a strong relationship between having a strong farm stretch followed by ring seasons. For the decades beforehand, you are right.
    Sox 4 Ever

  3. #18
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    80,024
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Durran should always have a high BABIP due to his speed. If he starts to hit AA pitching, look out.

    DD's trades brought us a ring. I'm happy with most of them. One could quibble about the Kimbrel trade and the Thornburg trade was a huge mistake.
    I'm not sure speed was the only factor in his high BAbip, but your point is a good one.

    That also begs the question: if he had good numbers last year based a lot on his speed, why should we expect/hope his hitting to improve as he moves up a level?

    Sox 4 Ever

  4. #19
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    65,866
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Since 2003, there has been a strong relationship between having a strong farm stretch followed by ring seasons. For the decades beforehand, you are right.
    What is old is new again.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  5. #20
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    80,024
    Rings during or shortly after having a strong farm...

    Strong farm 2003-2007: Rings in 2004 and 2007

    So-so farm 2008-2011: No rings

    Strong farm 2012-2017: Rings in 2013 & 2018

    Weak farm 2018-today: No rings
    Sox 4 Ever

  6. #21
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    65,866
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I'm not sure speed was the only factor in his high BAbip, but your point is a good one.

    That also begs the question: if he had good numbers last year based a lot on his speed, why should we expect/hope his hitting to improve as he moves up a level?

    Because almost every young player improves somewhat?
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  7. #22
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    65,866
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Rings during or shortly after having a strong farm...

    Strong farm 2003-2007: Rings in 2004 and 2007

    So-so farm 2008-2011: No rings

    Strong farm 2012-2017: Rings in 2013 & 2018

    Weak farm 2018-today: No rings
    They did not win in 2004 because of their farm.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  8. #23
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    65,866
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    They did not win in 2004 because of their farm.
    I'd contend that they didn't win in 2013 because of their farm either. Both were veteran led teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  9. #24
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    80,024
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    What is old is new again.
    What's different, now, is that the system set up for building a farm is drastically different from decades past. That's one reason you see more and more teams desperately clinging to their best prospects.

    No longer can a rich team draft "unsignable players" late in the first round, and then sign them.

    No longer can a rich team strategically acquire players that will net them comp picks after they depart.

    No longer can rich teams just outspend poorer teams on the International FA Market. (This one is huge.) No more Bogey, Devers, Moncada, Margot, Espinoza, D Hern and other key players on past ring teams or traded for studs used to win rings.

    No longer is Henry willing to max out spending year-after-year.

    The "old" can never be new again. Those days are gone for good.
    Sox 4 Ever

  10. #25
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    80,024
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I'd contend that they didn't win in 2013 because of their farm either. Both were veteran led teams.
    Several of our vets came from our strong farm:
    Lester 33 GS 3.75 ERA
    Doubront 27 GS 4.32 ERA
    Buch 1.74 ERA
    Tazawa IFA
    Peavy acquired by trading prospects
    Ellsbury
    Middy had 17 Hrs in 348 ABs
    Nava went nutty in '13
    Bogey was a key call-up
    Iggy contributed

    True, the bulk of the biggest players were FA signings, but we needed the players listed above to win it all, too.
    Sox 4 Ever

  11. #26
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    65,866
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    The "old" can never be new again. Those days are gone for good.
    Disagree entirely. The biggest change now is that prospects have become overvalued. I believe there is a prospect market that is going to burst. People can hoard all the prospects they want, but it's just a bunch of lottery tickets. Veteran players are known commodities.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  12. #27
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    65,866
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    but we needed the players listed above to win it all, too.
    You could make the same argument for every WS team since the 1900's. They've all had farm contributions. That doesn't mean the current farm system is what won them the title as you suggested.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  13. #28
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    80,024
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    You could make the same argument for every WS team since the 1900's. They've all had farm contributions. That doesn't mean the current farm system is what won them the title as you suggested.
    I get your point, and the 2013 season is not a shining example of strong previous farms leading to a ring, but the fact remains, we have no rings when the farm was weak for 2-3 year prior to the ring season. Every ring we have in my lifetime was won during or one year after we had a very strong farm.
    Sox 4 Ever

  14. #29
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    65,866
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Depth chart on Sox Prospects:

    C Christian Vazquez MLB
    C Kevin Plawecki MLB

    Nobody below is on the 40 man:
    C Jett Bandy AAA not a prospect, just an older org guy
    C Austin Rei AA below average offensively and defensively
    C/3B Joe DeCarlo AA org depth, limited upside
    C Charlie Madden AA org catcher, no bat
    C/1B Kole Cottam A+ offensive minded catcher, may move off position at some point, can be used in emergency
    C Roldani Baldwin A+ similar profile to Cottam, just rule V eligible sooner

    Jaxx Groshans and Jonathan Diaz are the only other guys with much potential, but both only in Lowell last year.
    Sox Prospects hadn't updated for Juan Centeno re-signing yesterday. He's the MiLB guy that could be used as an emergency C and played in a few Sox games last year where nobody was paying attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  15. #30
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    65,866
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I get your point, and the 2013 season is not a shining example of strong previous farms leading to a ring, but the fact remains, we have no rings when the farm was weak for 2-3 year prior to the ring season. Every ring we have in my lifetime was won during or one year after we had a very strong farm.
    The farm barely contributed at all to the 2004 team. You could make a case for a bigger impact for the other 3 for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •