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Thread: Spring Training 2020

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    I thought it made a lot of sense to keep Mookie this year and reset next year. That said, it also makes a lot of sense to do what the Sox did. Either way, I agree about not signing Mookie to a ridiculous long term dea.
    Obviously I wanted Mookie to remain in Boston this year unless the Red Sox were out of it at the trade deadline. However from a business standpoint it is equally obvious that the Red Sox are suffering huge backlash at the gate. At some point that backlash could be such that trading Mookie could become a huge financial mistake despite whatever LUX TAX savings. Right now ticket sales are down 15%, last week Kennedy said they were down 6%. If they drop 20 to 25%, that could be from about 600,000 to over 700,000 fans.(I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss such a possibility) That would be one hell of a financial hit especially if were to last for more than a one year.

    Red Sox fans are not only pissed at the trade but also the increase in ticket prices. This could get real ugly

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    Obviously I wanted Mookie to remain in Boston this year unless the Red Sox were out of it at the trade deadline. However from a business standpoint it is equally obvious that the Red Sox are suffering huge backlash at the gate. At some point that backlash could be such that trading Mookie could become a huge financial mistake despite whatever LUX TAX savings. Right now ticket sales are down 15%, last week Kennedy said they were down 6%. If they drop 20 to 25%, that could be from about 600,000 to over 700,000 fans.(I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss such a possibility) That would be one hell of a financial hit especially if were to last for more than a one year.

    Red Sox fans are not only pissed at the trade but also the increase in ticket prices. This could get real ugly
    If Mookie has a great year and the Sox have a crap year -- and the latter is reflected in fan support at the gate and on the tube -- Boston would have to pay more than Betts' camp ever asked before to bring him back. It may actually even be worth it to the brand, but they'd never admit that... so he's gone for good.

    Now, what pitchers will be available by July for our (hallelujah) flexible payroll to invest in? I think guys from teams having disappointing years might be better bargains than young break-out arms from predicted non-contenders. Possible sellers: Cleveland, Cincinnati... Houston.

  3. #48
    MVP vegasbob's Avatar
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    I have nothing against Verdugo, ok with the trade for all the reasons expressed by others, and would love him to have a great year and extended stint in Boston. But can he STFU until he can get on the field and actually play, then he can talk. This motormouth is very impressed with himself. Get healthy and then do something worth talking about Verdugo.

  4. #49
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    If Mookie has a great year and the Sox have a crap year -- and the latter is reflected in fan support at the gate and on the tube -- Boston would have to pay more than Betts' camp ever asked before to bring him back. It may actually even be worth it to the brand, but they'd never admit that... so he's gone for good.

    Now, what pitchers will be available by July for our (hallelujah) flexible payroll to invest in? I think guys from teams having disappointing years might be better bargains than young break-out arms from predicted non-contenders. Possible sellers: Cleveland, Cincinnati... Houston.
    I have nothing against the Dodgers, and would likely even root for them once the Sox are out of it, but I really hope they don't win the WS this year (unless they're playing against the Yankees). That is something that we would never hear the end of.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    If Mookie has a great year and the Sox have a crap year -- and the latter is reflected in fan support at the gate and on the tube -- Boston would have to pay more than Betts' camp ever asked before to bring him back. It may actually even be worth it to the brand, but they'd never admit that... so he's gone for good.
    Based on what? Mookie wanting revenge?

    The amount the Red Sox have to pay is based on what other teams are willing to pay, not based on their record from the previous year.

    If no team is willing to pay him 12 years $360 million, they the price for the Red Sox doesn't increase over the original 12yr / $420mill demand. It goes down. Unless Mookie is willing to leave a ton of money on the table, which is the one thing he seems to have any reluctance to do....

  6. #51
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Maybe the loss in revenue will be enough evidence to convince Sox management to offer Betts the best offer next winter.

    With a reset under our belt, half of Price's contract off the books and maybe another $20+ M coming off the books after 2020 (JBJ, Pillar, Workman and options for Perez & Moreland), we are much better positioned to make such an offer, if we are so inclined to do so, than had we not made this deal.

    The following winter sees us losing Pedey, Barnes and Hembree (hopefully not ERod).

    I'm all for making a play for Betts, but the fact is, we'll be able to spend on something very useful for years to come.
    Sox 4 Ever

  7. #52
    TalkSox Godhead mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    I have nothing against the Dodgers, and would likely even root for them once the Sox are out of it, but I really hope they don't win the WS this year (unless they're playing against the Yankees). That is something that we would never hear the end of.
    Because of Mookie or the cheating of previous years?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Remy View Post
    ďNow Iím not sure why it was necessary, but watch ... I canít circle because I donít have my telestrator but HERE COMES THE PIZZA, see?Ē

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Based on what? Mookie wanting revenge?

    The amount the Red Sox have to pay is based on what other teams are willing to pay, not based on their record from the previous year.

    If no team is willing to pay him 12 years $360 million, they the price for the Red Sox doesn't increase over the original 12yr / $420mill demand. It goes down. Unless Mookie is willing to leave a ton of money on the table, which is the one thing he seems to have any reluctance to do....
    We really don't know the actual numbers in the Sox' offers to Mookie or even if there were negotiations; most reports suggest there weren't any -- the only number ever attributed to Betts' camp was $420M, their price required to buy out his free agency. All we can do is speculate... but let's even say Boston caved in the past year and agreed to meet his asking AAV of $35M or even exceed it to $36M (say, 10 for $360) -- Whatever it was (if it was), Mookie still didn't sign.

    Instead they traded his butt out of Boston. Now envision the Sox tank and trade all his buds like JBJ and JD and look like a non-contender for the next few rebuilding years. Meanwhile, Betts has another MVP-type year and goes far in the postseason on a team that has already finished first the last seven seasons without him. Both of these scenarios are certainly possibilities.

    If the latter occurs, Mookie's asking price a year from now very well could be around half a billion dollars. It will definitely be higher than it was the last time the Sox talked to him. He may not get his asking price, but some team may deem his value -- at the then-current top of the market price -- at a higher number than what he once wanted from Henry to stay in Boston. And if the Red Sox really want him back, they may have no choice but to pay a premium above say, one single dollar more than his highest other offer.

  9. #54
    That was a long-ass reply which should've just read, "I'm fairly certain that in a year from now, Mookie's asking price will be higher than ever..." (which should be all we need to know about the chances of Boston re-signing him... except that it's fickle, mercurial Boston)

  10. #55
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    Where does Myers play if we acquire him?

  11. #56
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Cook View Post
    Where does Myers play if we acquire him?
    1B, corner OF, DH. Weird acquisition, unless Bloom thinks the world of Quantrill.

    Maybe we trade JBJ or Beni. Maybe we trade Chavis.
    Sox 4 Ever

  12. #57
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    That was a long-ass reply which should've just read, "I'm fairly certain that in a year from now, Mookie's asking price will be higher than ever..." (which should be all we need to know about the chances of Boston re-signing him... except that it's fickle, mercurial Boston)
    Betts can ask and demand all he wants, but the price will be set by the highest bid from a GM.

    Once we know what that is, then we can haggle about the Sox not one upping that bid, or not.

    The Sox are pretty good at valuing their own talent and offering a fair contract and not going much higher.

    I still think we have a better chance by trading him, but that assumes we want to pay what it will take. I'm not sure we do or should, but to me, we should offer a big contract (maybe $400M/13) and then let the chips fall where they may.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    We really don't know the actual numbers in the Sox' offers to Mookie or even if there were negotiations; most reports suggest there weren't any -- the only number ever attributed to Betts' camp was $420M, their price required to buy out his free agency. All we can do is speculate... but let's even say Boston caved in the past year and agreed to meet his asking AAV of $35M or even exceed it to $36M (say, 10 for $360) -- Whatever it was (if it was), Mookie still didn't sign.

    Instead they traded his butt out of Boston. Now envision the Sox tank and trade all his buds like JBJ and JD and look like a non-contender for the next few rebuilding years. Meanwhile, Betts has another MVP-type year and goes far in the postseason on a team that has already finished first the last seven seasons without him. Both of these scenarios are certainly possibilities.

    If the latter occurs, Mookie's asking price a year from now very well could be around half a billion dollars. It will definitely be higher than it was the last time the Sox talked to him. He may not get his asking price, but some team may deem his value -- at the then-current top of the market price -- at a higher number than what he once wanted from Henry to stay in Boston. And if the Red Sox really want him back, they may have no choice but to pay a premium above say, one single dollar more than his highest other offer.
    As far as we know, Betts’ price to every team is one dollar more than the next highest. Not sure why you’re singling out the Red Sox here or what Bradley and Martinez have to do with it...

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    That was a long-ass reply which should've just read, "I'm fairly certain that in a year from now, Mookie's asking price will be higher than ever..." (which should be all we need to know about the chances of Boston re-signing him... except that it's fickle, mercurial Boston)
    Unless teams don’t quite meet them. If that’s the case, expect a prolonged free agency for Betts that drags into February...

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    We really don't know the actual numbers in the Sox' offers to Mookie or even if there were negotiations; most reports suggest there weren't any -- the only number ever attributed to Betts' camp was $420M, their price required to buy out his free agency. All we can do is speculate... but let's even say Boston caved in the past year and agreed to meet his asking AAV of $35M or even exceed it to $36M (say, 10 for $360) -- Whatever it was (if it was), Mookie still didn't sign.

    Instead they traded his butt out of Boston. Now envision the Sox tank and trade all his buds like JBJ and JD and look like a non-contender for the next few rebuilding years. Meanwhile, Betts has another MVP-type year and goes far in the postseason on a team that has already finished first the last seven seasons without him. Both of these scenarios are certainly possibilities.

    If the latter occurs, Mookie's asking price a year from now very well could be around half a billion dollars. It will definitely be higher than it was the last time the Sox talked to him. He may not get his asking price, but some team may deem his value -- at the then-current top of the market price -- at a higher number than what he once wanted from Henry to stay in Boston. And if the Red Sox really want him back, they may have no choice but to pay a premium above say, one single dollar more than his highest other offer.
    5GG....your last sentence is the only one that matters and is exactly what it will take to sign Mookie when he hits FA next offseason. by resetting we will be one of the teams in the bidding war....
    other names i have posted under: none

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