The COVID 19 (coronavirus) thread

[mvp 78]

That's one of the things that happens when you're required to social distance, no?

Just posting FACTS sir!

[mvp 78]

Suburban NYers are coming to Florida. The deaths are not in the suburbs.

You can keep your suburban trash up there. I only want the good bagel and pizza makers.

[mvp 78]

This is almost too much to believe.

Tom Vanden Brook, USA TODAY Published 6:45 p.m. ET April 8, 2020 | Updated 7:40 p.m. ET April 8, 2020

WASHINGTON – Acting Navy secretary Thomas Modly's trip last weekend to address sailors aboard the COVID-19-stricken USS Theodore Roosevelt cost taxpayers more than $243,000 for the 35-hour round trip on a Gulfstream 550, according to a Navy official.

Modly's profanity-laced speech to the sailors, during which he branded the fired captain of the ship as "naive" and "stupid" for seeking aid, prompted Modly to offer his resignation Tuesday.

Modly, who is in quarantine after visiting the Roosevelt, had his offer accepted by Defense Secretary Mark Esper.

Modly flew aboard the C-37B, a Gulfstream business jet modified for military use. The per-hour cost of flying it is $6,946.19 per hour, according to the Navy official who was not authorized to speak publicly. Flight time for the Guam trip was about 35 hours for a cost of $243,116.65.

Wednesday, the Navy reported 286 cases positive for COVID-19 aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, which remains docked in Guam. The Navy has tested 93% of the crew and moved 2,329 sailors to shore to isolate them. The rest of the 4,800-member crew is on board to run nuclear reactors, guard weapons and disinfect the ship.

Wasteful military spending? THIS IS THE WAY....

[a700hitter]

"More objective." A700's leanings are as pronounced as Sox75's. It's not in any way objective.

Hatred clouds judgment. I am not burning with hatred. I want to live through this and have an orderly society and prosperous economy when it is over. I have not engaged in hyperbole or hysteria like others have. I have been very measured throughout this in the face of hysteria from others. You have also been measured and not hysterical and even though your political viewpoint is very different from mine, I have not dismissed you as not being objective.

[a700hitter]

You can keep your suburban trash up there. I only want the good bagel and pizza makers.

Pretty good bagels and pizza in my neck of the woods - Massapequa aka Matzah-Pizza. LOL!!

[mvp 78]

Hatred clouds judgment. I am not burning with hatred. I want to live through this and have an orderly society and prosperous economy when it is over. I have not engaged in hyperbole or hysteria like others have. I have been very measured throughout this in the face of hysteria from others. You have also been measured and not hysterical and even though your political viewpoint is very different from mine, I have not dismissed you as not being objective.

I'm not trying to say that you are any less "objective" than anyone else one here. Everyone on here is showing their political leanings somehow. Me, you, notin, jung, bellhorn, everyone. It's next to impossible to be 100% objective when you're talking about this pandemic and the government's response to it.

[mvp 78]

Pretty good bagels and pizza in my neck of the woods - Massapequa aka Matzah-Pizza. LOL!!

I have to say, the pizza down here made by NY transplants is far superior to any of the pizza in MA (not including the North End). I haven't gotten around to trying any of the bagel places.

[a700hitter]

I have to say, the pizza down here made by NY transplants is far superior to any of the pizza in MA (not including the North End). I haven't gotten around to trying any of the bagel places.

MA pizza sucks the big one.

Even the NYers can't make good bagels in Fla. I don't know why. I have heard various explanations.

[a700hitter]

I'm not trying to say that you are any less "objective" than anyone else one here. Everyone on here is showing their political leanings somehow. Me, you, notin, jung, bellhorn, everyone. It's next to impossible to be 100% objective when you're talking about this pandemic and the government's response to it.

I get it.

One of the best wedding toasts I have heard was given by a good friend's father. The funniest line was when he said that he feels that "a man needs a wife, because he can't blame everything on the government."

[notin]

A blowhard, yes. An idiot? If you think so, you are just burning with bias.

No. I do think “idiot” applies. If he would focus more on the pandemic and quit pretending the economy is the priority, I might feel otherwise.

And please quit pretending “anti-Trump” is the only bias that exists. It strikes me that anyone who defends his actions is teeming with bias as well...

[notin]

I'm not trying to say that you are any less "objective" than anyone else one here. Everyone on here is showing their political leanings somehow. Me, you, notin, jung, bellhorn, everyone. It's next to impossible to be 100% objective when you're talking about this pandemic and the government's response to it.

Here’s what does conflict me.

If Trump has gotten out in front of this thing and encouraged proper testing and proper travel bans and proper quarantining, and if all this fell into play and the US was spared the overwhelming brunt of this pandemic, it is possible that entire safety net could have been executed so smoothly and flawlessly that we never knew the extent of the catastrophe we avoided. And had it happened that way, I honestly do not know what level of credit I would have given to Trump. It would clearly have been a praiseworthy effort, but if it went smoothly, I might not have noticed. Certainly the news about the rest of the world is still out there, so would I still have been so biased as to ignore this type of effort?

I honestly don’t know...

[notin]

I'm not trying to say that you are any less "objective" than anyone else one here. Everyone on here is showing their political leanings somehow. Me, you, notin, jung, bellhorn, everyone. It's next to impossible to be 100% objective when you're talking about this pandemic and the government's response to it.

Most of the time in any situation like this, the more objective someone claims to be, the less objective they really are. The necessity to point out objectivity by name is usually predicated it being impossible for any listener to reach that conclusion independently. It’s like how used car dealers refer to themselves by name as “Honest” or Fox News used to use the slogan “Fair and Balanced.”

My decision to not label myself as objective, however, is because I clearly am not in this case. And that’s not meant to create some sort of objectivity paradox where one can only conclude I truly am objective; I’m not. I am blatantly anti-Trump, and for many good reasons.. But being blatantly pro-Trump is not the position of objectivity either. That’s still the same level of bias...

[FredLynn]

Here’s what does conflict me.

If Trump has gotten out in front of this thing and encouraged proper testing and proper travel bans and proper quarantining, and if all this fell into play and the US was spared the overwhelming brunt of this pandemic, it is possible that entire safety net could have been executed so smoothly and flawlessly that we never knew the extent of the catastrophe we avoided. And had it happened that way, I honestly do not know what level of credit I would have given to Trump. It would clearly have been a praiseworthy effort, but if it went smoothly, I might not have noticed. Certainly the news about the rest of the world is still out there, so would I still have been so biased as to ignore this type of effort?

I honestly don’t know...

Like any President, Trump has done some good things IMO (such as overseeing policies that had, up until now, promoted an unprecedented economic expansion, fought for reducing the number of people in this country illegally, made our borders less porous to people trying to enter here illegally, called out China for taking advantage of our country for many many years economically etc) and some very bad things, including incessant lying to the public and totally mishandling the response to the coronavirus pandemic. He was apparently warned in November that this could happen and failed to adequately protect the citizens of this country from its effects, and that is his primary job as President. He wants credit for closing the border to China, but he will get none from me. He should have closed the border to EVERY country (like New Zealand, which has I believe had ONE death from the plague) and mandated a nationwide stay at home order in January or February. I saw this coming in early January and bought some N95 masks and Purell. Why couldn't the President of this country also see this coming and protect the citizens that live here? He WAS warned; he failed to act. History will not judge him kindly because of that IMO. However, this is not a political issue right now, not primarily anyway. Its a public health issue. There will be time to get to the bottom of who is at fault when it passes, which it will do.

[a700hitter]

Maybe you missed this. “It’s a two-way street,” Trump told Fox News on Tuesday. “They have to treat us well, also. They can’t say, ‘Oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that.’” Are we getting that technical?

Who is getting "technical"? He never held back on assistance, because someone wasn't "nice". For you to suggest otherwise was misleading.

It’s an anti malarial, not an anti viral. It’s been postulated for use against other outbreaks not because of its science, but because of its availability, especially in areas where outbreaks are common. The basic science makes little to no sense. But that’s beside the point. You don’t, as the president of the US, tout medications that aren’t proven and then tell people “what do you have to lose”? You could die from this Med and we don’t even know if it works. You don’t do that as a leader of 350M people.

In other words, A700 was right and that it has been used in the treatment of other viruses. I never said it was an anti-viral or why it was used, just that it has been used, and that is where the positive andecdotal information originated. And where is this rule you site that "Presidents .. [don't] tout medications" in a time of national emergency? His touting it pushed drug companies to gear up the production, and this medication is being used widely and you know it.

It’s cardiotoxic. It causes QT prolongation which, if unchecked, would cause torsades and death. When a side effect is death, I consider that toxic

The side effects are well known. That is for the physician to manage, and if there was much anecdotal negative evidence about side effects and toxicity, it would be page 1 of the New York Times. Let's be honest Doc. Oh for 2 Jacko

You’re right, everything is anecdotal, outside of two studies, one horrendously flawed and another that was too small. But anecdotal data of my usage, my colleagues usage and the ICU usage around the country of this drug is that it doesn’t work. Typically, when you test something, it starts with anecdotes of effectiveness that get turned into a good RCT to determine effectiveness. It’s not typically the other way around. We usually don’t say this drug/treatment doesn’t work, let’s prove it. That’s stupid

In short, A700 was right. Oh fer 3

...But trump touted a drug and shortly after, it went into shortage. Possibly coincidence? But it did happen.

There is no evidence that Trump created a shortage of the drug for non-virus patients. None. In fact, he lit a fire to get it manufactured. Oh fer 4

I’ve chosen nothing of the sort. I’ve chosen to give you facts about how this was so poorly managed. I’ve shown you countries that have done it right. I’ve told you about the dangers of our president touting potentially harmful treatments before they’re ready. (I’ve touted one, remdisivir, which has strong anecdotal support and the company itself is positioning itself as if it’s studies are clearly positive.) I’ve warned you of what life is like in the ED. I’ve told you about the second curve. I’ve told you about the lack of PPE and ventilators. If you don’t want to hear about the reality of it, then turn off your cpu and stick your fingers in your ears.

You have gone down a path of a political focus. You can't deny that. You haven't used your expertise here to help us or give us useful information. Instead, you have chosen a path focused on assigning blame. Oh fer 5. You are hitting worse than the '68 Pinstripers.

[mvp 78]

No. I do think “idiot” applies. If he would focus more on the pandemic and quit pretending the economy is the priority, I might feel otherwise.

And please quit pretending “anti-Trump” is the only bias that exists. It strikes me that anyone who defends his actions is teeming with bias as well...

The economy IS Trump's priority though.