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Thread: COVID - Anything goes

  1. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    If Peter Navarro wrote a memo advocating the invasion of Iran does that mean we should do it without consulting the Pentagon. That is the absurdity of Fred's position.
    But he didn’t write that memo. He correctly warned Trump about the possibility of the pandemic reaching this country. Lets stay with reality, with what really happened, regardless of how inconvenient it is, regardless of it not supporting your narrative.

  2. #857
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    Not so. You absolutely do not know that. It is likely even probable that Navarro's concerns were staffed but there wasn't adequate support within govt to take direct action then. This is how govt works. I have tried to explain it to you but refuse to accept the way govt actually work. Presidents do not take action because one staffer writes a memo.
    Obviously he should have taken action. It would have saved tens of thousands of lives.
    That’s the problem (or one of them) with Trump: he thinks he knows everything, when, in fact, he really isn’t that smart at all.

  3. #858
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    Obviously he should have taken action. It would have saved tens of thousands of lives.
    That’s the problem (or one of them) with Trump: he thinks he knows everything, when, in fact, he really isn’t that smart at all.
    Once again you dismiss the fact that there was no govt consensus for any action to be taken until it was. So no it is not obvious that he should have acted sooner. Nor is it obvious that if he had the results would have been any different. Your only evidence is a model that even you admit is an inexact science.

  4. #859
    Hey folks the next time some staffer writes a memo let us do what he suggests he might be right even if it is not in his area of expertise. Let us have Treasury staffers write memos telling DOD what to do And you guys over at agriculture I want your thoughts on the space program. Hey you guys at state I want your thoughts on how to manage public lands for Interior. Why because some retire pediatrician from Calif thinks that is the way govt should be run.

  5. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    Once again you dismiss the fact that there was no govt consensus for any action to be taken until it was. So no it is not obvious that he should have acted sooner. Nor is it obvious that if he had the results would have been any different. Your only evidence is a model that even you admit is an inexact science.
    Two models with similar results. I can understand your reluctance to believe one model alone- but two models came up with similar results.
    Obviously Trump listened to the wrong advice. The people who advised him not to do anything were dead wrong as it turned out. Trump made a bad decision not to heed the advice Navarro (and, no doubt, others) gave him. He listened to THE WRONG PEOPLE! Looking at what happened I think that is undeniable.

  6. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    Hey folks the next time some staffer writes a memo let us do what he suggests he might be right even if it is not in his area of expertise. Let us have Treasury staffers write memos telling DOD what to do And you guys over at agriculture I want your thoughts on the space program. Hey you guys at state I want your thoughts on how to manage public lands for Interior. Why because some retire pediatrician from Calif thinks that is the way govt should be run.
    I know its hard for you, but try to deal with reality, not some absurd fantasy of yours.

  7. #862
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    Two models with similar results. I can understand your reluctance to believe one model alone- but two models came up with similar results.
    Obviously Trump listened to the wrong advice. The people who advised him not to do anything were dead wrong as it turned out. Trump made a bad decision not to heed the advice Navarro (and, no doubt, others) gave him. He listened to THE WRONG PEOPLE! Looking at what happened I think that is undeniable.
    Once again those wrong people were all at HHS and the CDC ncluding Fauci and Brix. And there is no evidence that anyone other than Navarro.expressed any concern.

  8. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    Once again those wrong people were all at HHS and the CDC ncluding Fauci and Brix. And there is no evidence that anyone other than Navarro.expressed any concern.
    And Navarro is an economist. Shutting down the country for health reasons based on a memo from an economist would be ridiculous, if he even saw the memo at all.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

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    Chaim, you are in the big leagues now. Drawing 10,000 fans a game is not going to cut it, and people don’t buy tickets to Fenway to talk about the Farm

    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    "Relief pitchers are a crapshoot." No, the truth is "Crapshoot pitchers are relievers."

  9. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    Once again those wrong people were all at HHS and the CDC ncluding Fauci and Brix. And there is no evidence that anyone other than Navarro.expressed any concern.
    Nope. No other evidence (not that more is needed). When the democrats win in November the investigation will reveal who said what and when. Its amazingly short sighted of you not to believe the possibility of a disastrous pandemic was never discussed with the president. Ridiculous.

  10. #865
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    I know its hard for you, but try to deal with reality, not some absurd fantasy of yours.
    The absurdity is all yours because you have absolutely no clue how the federal gov't works. You have a fantasy that presidents make decisions without staff input from the competent federal departments, all relevant departments.

  11. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    And Navarro is an economist. Shutting down the country for health reasons based on a memo from an economist would be ridiculous, if he even saw the memo at all.
    Ummm...he was right! Prescient in fact.

  12. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    The absurdity is all yours because you have absolutely no clue how the federal gov't works. You have a fantasy that presidents make decisions without staff input from the competent federal departments, all relevant departments.
    I don’t recognize your opinion as more valid than mine. Lets start there.

    I am sure the president gets all kinds of advice from a lot of sources. In this instance he listened to the wrong people and made a bad decision. My evidence: look at the aftermath of his choice

  13. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    Nope. No other evidence (not that more is needed). When the democrats win in November the investigation will reveal who said what and when. Its amazingly short sighted of you not to believe the possibility of a disastrous pandemic was never discussed with the president. Ridiculous.
    Of course it was discussed but presidents do not make decisions s based on a discussion. for the hundredth time. They make decisions based on decision memos sent out by the Chief of Staff to the competent depts. There is a format for these memos. I know I have seen them. I have participated in the process. There is great debate and discussion.within each department to get that department's position before being forwarded to the other departments for clearance and comment. Eventually the memo giving each departments position is then forwarded to the white house laying out the item for decision ,the options and recommended course of decision. That is how a president makes a decision to shut the economy. He does not make such decisions because some staffer thinks it is a good idea.

    If the democrats want to hold another witch hunt like the Russian collusion farce then go to it. But I think most Americans want to get the economy running. If you think Adam Schiff is capable of conducting an objective investigation then you are kidding yourself. No you are the one who wants foreign judges involved. Yea that should go over well.

  14. #869
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    I don’t recognize your opinion as more valid than mine. Lets start there.

    I am sure the president gets all kinds of advice from a lot of sources. In this instance he listened to the wrong people and made a bad decision. My evidence: look at the aftermath of his choice
    The difference my opinion is based on personal experience having served in the executive secretariate of the Dept of State and having seen the process of decision-making up close.

  15. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elktonnick View Post
    The difference my opinion is based on personal experience having served in the executive secretariate of the Dept of State and having seen the process of decision-making up close.
    Sorry. That doesn't make your opinion more valuable. The decision making process isn't rocket science; its fairly simply. It doesn't take years of training to understand. I get that the president gets advice from a variety of people, from a a variety of departments. I have done reading about this so I understand how decisions get made.

    The fact is this: Navarro warned Trump that this was one possible result. And its extremely naive to think that no one ever brought it up in a closed door meeting. No, I do not have proof of that. The investigation will bring that out once this is over. Do you honestly believe that no one other than Navarro ever mentioned to Trump that this could happen? There are some very talented medical people on his staff.
    I don't get why you don't understand that this was simply an error in judgement, It happens. Unfortunately, this mistake cost tens of thousands of American lives.

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