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Thread: COVID - Anything goes

  1. #4906
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    The problem with a progressive tax system that is based on a redistribution platform is that no redistribution will ever be viewed as fair. That is just one of the problems with a progressive tax system for a society . I could go on for pages. I will just say this as an overarching comment about any “tax the rich ideas”. Don’t make me laugh. They will write the legislation and they will always find out a way around paying too much in taxes — and many of those ways hurt the economy.

    I worked for a General Counsel who was very politically progressive. In NYC, there was briefly a millionaire’s tax on the books. He was all in favor of it, but before the legislation was passed, he called in my group to advise him on how to avoid the tax. The hypocrisy was stunning. Most of the available techniques involved him changing his domicile outside of NYC and New York State which which would have deprived NYC of any tax revenue not just the “millionaires” tax. Bloomberg realized that this planning was being done by the rich and went to Albany with spreadsheets showing how the new “millionaires” tax would bankrupt NYC. It was repealed before it went into effect.
    So, here's a better idea. Let's just throw our hand in the air and give up,since someone will be complaining, no matter what we do, and go out an elect a president that structure the tax breaks to give the rich even more money and the rest table scraps that barely keep us up with inflation.

    It's funny how Eisenhower could do it. Kennedy, Johnson & Nixon barely changed it, now it's impossible.

    BTW, I do agree, it looks it is impossible, right now. It will be impossible to make major tax changes under Biden, too, but a small step in the right direction would help.

    It might help if people- left and right- stood up and demanded change in this area.

    The left gets a lot of criticism, untrue of course, for not calling out Obama when he deserved it, but I never hear anyone from the right call out T Rump for that tax plan he & the GOP pushed on us.
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  2. #4907
    Given the sensitivities , hard feelings , emotions , anger , history and the inherent self interest in human beings , it is extremely difficult to have an honest , open discussion about racial issues . If one side or the other has to become self - hating , submissive and agreeable to everything the other side says , it defeats the whole purpose of having the discussion . It is very difficult for either side , or any of us , to admit that we need to do better , but we all should try . It can't all be one way .

  3. #4908
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Sox 4 Ever

  4. #4909
    Well , at least we don't have " Brain - eating amoeba " popping up in Florida ........................... Wait a minute . Oh no . Damn .

  5. #4910
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    His buddy T Rump should get it too....and before anyone says I want him dead, I don't. The dead don't stand trial, as a rule. I want him to experience some of what he has foisted on this country. First hand. Justice would be served.

  6. #4911
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgalehouse View Post
    Given the sensitivities , hard feelings , emotions , anger , history and the inherent self interest in human beings , it is extremely difficult to have an honest , open discussion about racial issues . If one side or the other has to become self - hating , submissive and agreeable to everything the other side says , it defeats the whole purpose of having the discussion . It is very difficult for either side , or any of us , to admit that we need to do better , but we all should try . It can't all be one way .
    Its not just about racism that this country has become polarized about. Its just about everything political. T Rump has been the most polarizing president in history. Now he is using racism to appeal to his base. What kind of a human being behaves like this? Or should I say, what kind of ANIMAL behaves like this?

  7. #4912
    King of TalkSox a700hitter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    So, here's a better idea. Let's just throw our hand in the air and give up,since someone will be complaining, no matter what we do, and go out an elect a president that structure the tax breaks to give the rich even more money and the rest table scraps that barely keep us up with inflation.

    It's funny how Eisenhower could do it. Kennedy, Johnson & Nixon barely changed it, now it's impossible.

    BTW, I do agree, it looks it is impossible, right now. It will be impossible to make major tax changes under Biden, too, but a small step in the right direction would help.

    It might help if people- left and right- stood up and demanded change in this area.

    The left gets a lot of criticism, untrue of course, for not calling out Obama when he deserved it, but I never hear anyone from the right call out T Rump for that tax plan he & the GOP pushed on us.
    The Tax experts that advise the Senate Finance Committee have designed some taxing structures that would be maximize revenue, but they are non-starters politically. As between the 2 taxing structures that politicians advocate which is just one version of a progressive rate structure versus a more progressive rate structure, I think the lower progressive rate structure results in more economic activity and more revenue. So, I have no problem with the Trump tax policy and it has been good for the overall economy. It’s a political talking point to call it tax cuts for the rich and doesn’t reflect reality. However, there isn’t a lot of creativity in politics when it comes to tax policy, because of a combination of cowardice and corruption.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

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  8. #4913
    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sox75 View Post
    Of course, it all depends on HOW you define "systemic" racism?

    If you are talking about College Grant's? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

    If you are talking about state and federal jobs opportunities? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

    If the "INSTITUTION" is the state or federal government, then I totally disagree.

    Is there still racism in many institutions... i.e. rich, white, Liberal country clubs? ABSOLUTELY!

    In MANY rich, white, Liberal small businesses? YOU BET!
    lol....just watch the 4 minute cartoon video i have posted and then get back to me about something besides "country clubs"....
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  9. #4914
    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    This is patent nonsense. You are telling (not asking) people to acknowledge that they are inherently privileged because of the color of their skin and to acknowledge this to people of color, but it isn’t supposed to involve shame or guilt. I have seen this done with young kids that don’t even understand racism. I’d like to know how that affects the psychology of those kids. There is nothing like shaming a child for the child’s immutable characteristics. Pardon me, but that seems like a form of bullying. You can believe this stuff all that you want, but maybe you should drive through Appalachia to see some “white privilege” mixed in with extreme poverty and hopelessness. Believe what you want. That is your right as an American, but don’t you impugn my character as a racist for disagreeing with your theory. That would be bullying. I think the notion of “white privileged” is racist as it demeans blacks as inferior in our society, and I don’t accept that. You are not a racist, but I do think this belief of yours is racist. That is my opinion.
    fine. did you watch the video on what i am talking about with privilege? i am not trying to make anyone feel guilty but for damn sure citizens of the United States should know what the hell is going on. just my humble opinion. most people dont even know these things have happened or are happening. it isn't "fake" or "made up".
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  10. #4915
    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgalehouse View Post
    Given the sensitivities , hard feelings , emotions , anger , history and the inherent self interest in human beings , it is extremely difficult to have an honest , open discussion about racial issues . If one side or the other has to become self - hating , submissive and agreeable to everything the other side says , it defeats the whole purpose of having the discussion . It is very difficult for either side , or any of us , to admit that we need to do better , but we all should try . It can't all be one way .
    great thought provoking post dgale.
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  11. #4916
    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    The Tax experts that advise the Senate Finance Committee have designed some taxing structures that would be maximize revenue, but they are non-starters politically. As between the 2 taxing structures that politicians advocate which is just one version of a progressive rate structure versus a more progressive rate structure, I think the lower progressive rate structure results in more economic activity and more revenue. So, I have no problem with the Trump tax policy and it has been good for the overall economy. It’s a political talking point to call it tax cuts for the rich and doesn’t reflect reality. However, there isn’t a lot of creativity in politics when it comes to tax policy, because of a combination of cowardice and corruption.
    wait...cant we just militarize the police to enforce those 1% to pay that tax???
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  12. #4917
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    Its not just about racism that this country has become polarized about. Its just about everything political. T Rump has been the most polarizing president in history. Now he is using racism to appeal to his base. What kind of a human being behaves like this? Or should I say, what kind of ANIMAL behaves like this?
    So full of hate. Sad.

  13. #4918
    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    great thought provoking post dgale.
    Thank you .

  14. #4919
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    His buddy T Rump should get it too....and before anyone says I want him dead, I don't. The dead don't stand trial, as a rule. I want him to experience some of what he has foisted on this country. First hand. Justice would be served.
    If Biden gets it, he won't know it. He is long gone.

  15. #4920
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    So, here's a better idea. Let's just throw our hand in the air and give up,since someone will be complaining, no matter what we do, and go out an elect a president that structure the tax breaks to give the rich even more money and the rest table scraps that barely keep us up with inflation.

    It's funny how Eisenhower could do it. Kennedy, Johnson & Nixon barely changed it, now it's impossible.

    BTW, I do agree, it looks it is impossible, right now. It will be impossible to make major tax changes under Biden, too, but a small step in the right direction would help.

    It might help if people- left and right- stood up and demanded change in this area.

    The left gets a lot of criticism, untrue of course, for not calling out Obama when he deserved it, but I never hear anyone from the right call out T Rump for that tax plan he & the GOP pushed on us.
    I would agree that the RICH likely need to pay more in taxes.

    BUT.... There is a big difference with this, and wanting to levy confiscatory taxes and cap & trade like policies that don't take into account that we live, breathe, and WORK in increasingly GLOBAL MARKETS.

    We can't compete on wages. We can't compete on the cost of land and property, when TRYING TO LURE AND KEEP big business, industry, and manufacturing here in the U.S. These businesses MUST find a way to sell their product or service in an INCREASINGLY COMPETATIVE MARKET. They can't do this without incentives.

    * THE MOST IMPORTANT THING A GOVERNMENT CAN DO is to protect its citizens, and create a business environment that attracts businesses and CREATES JOBS.

    JOBS! A way to make a living, support a household, and build a meaningful and productive life.

    You Liberal Progressives often miss the BIG PICTURE!
    * NOTHING CHANGES if Americans have no way to make a living. You talk about taxes as though you live in a vacuum. For you, it's tax the rich and big business more, and have more to distribute to poor minorities and the other aggrieved and oppressed. THIS IS YOUR ULTIMATE SOLUTION!

    * and it could not be more naive and foolhardy!

    Again.... THE RICH should pay more, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO STOCK MARKET CAPITAL GAINS....

    BUT... Your bigger picture never addresses THE BIGGEST PROBLEM for ALL POOR in this country!

    Black, Brown, White, or any other.... THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE IS helping to attract business and industry to the U.S., and helping to create the business environment that creates JOBS!

    JOBS.... JOBS.... JOBS.... JOBS .... JOBS!

    It is THE BIGGEST PROBLEM in the U.S., and the only answer to the real issues for all Americans! MOST ESPECIALLY... with inner-city minorities and African Americans. Jobs and the opportunities to build a better life!

    Because Republicans pound this pulpit of productivity and opportunity, you view it as being mutually exclusive of "caring about racism."

    That's pure bullshit! If anything, I'd say many of us "care" more. We don't just parrot the typical "feel good" nonsense that makes us LOOK LIKE we care more, we are willing to stand up and say the hard & fast TRUTHS that will help ALL Americans!

    Blacks, Browns, & Whites have shit if they have NO JOB.and NO OPPORTUNITY. In my view, Democrats are FANTASTIC at pandering and promising to GIVE minorities just enough to get by. We put context around your "giving" away OUR money, and explain that there simply isn't enough to consistently "give" for minorities or Africa Americans, so THEY CAN BUILD A MEANINGFUL LIFE.

    Its hard for us to swallow that you are that naive. It's often like talking to a naive 1st year idealistic sociology major, bent of nebulous things like "social justice," without any REAL WORLD acknowledgement of what it REALLY TAKES to work and build a meaningful, productive, prosperous, happy, and fulfilled life.

    It is frustrating to talk with someone so bright, who consistently plays these ZERO sum game with issues.
    "So, you'd rather give big business money," than to try to help lift African Americans out of a life of oppression and povery?" You would routinely reply. As though you totally missed the meaning of our posts.

    It is beyond frustrating to discuss these substantive issues with you, Fred Lynn, 78, Hoppy, & sometimes Slasher.
    These mindlessly demagogic pseudo-economist simplified vaccuum ensconced responses are so sophomoric that they leave no fertile ground to farm an intelligent conversation. It's absolitely MIND-BLOWING to consistently have these pointless and demagogic conversations with you and yours. To know that you are far more than bright enough to fully understand the realities of ANY person WORKING HARD TO BUILD a full, hard-working, meaningful, prosperous, and happy life and family, and consistently see you simplify life in a global community, is beyond description. In fact, it has become completely pointless.

    You and yours are content to sit back, demagogue these issues for political gains, paint Republicans as greedy and evil, and say all the right PC things, to make yourself LOOK and feel more caring, open-minded, tolerant, and like a better all around person.

    Good on you! Whatever floats your boat.


    p.s. Slasher, because you are equally intelligent as Moon, and less demagogic, but still a champion demagogue, this covers your last post asking me to watch the video.


    WARNING: These are NUANCED VIEWS on where the big problems really lie. They do NOT inherently dismiss all issues of REAL RACISM. So, i.e. Moon & others, will immediately dismiss them by saying, "so... all you care about is the economy?" COMPLETELY MISSING the big points.
    Last edited by Sox75; 07-07-2020 at 01:38 PM.
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