Benintendi

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

When I pointed out outfield assists, it wasn't to imply Beni has the best arm, only that he isn't as inept as a few posters here insist. If a ballplayer leads the league in a positive stat at his position, he's at least doing his job. We also know the eye-test shows us that baserunners stopped running on Dewey Evans or Mookie -- affecting their numbers... or that the Red Sox won rings with true rag arms in center with Damon or Ellsbury.

It was only two years ago that Benintendi was chosen by professional observers as a finalist for the AL Gold Glove in left field. He also led the MLB postseason in runs scored in '18 and tied for the AL lead in hits with JD Martinez. But bodies can change quickly (Ozuna won Gold in '17 and now he's a DH). Maybe Andrew's dealing with a recurrent arm or leg injury; we shall see.

[notin]

What about guys with cannons at other OF positions?

Vlad: 42
JBJ: 29
Dewey: 40
Clemente: 66
Barfield: 59
Ichiro: 33
Mays: 51

Mot baserunners didn't run on them. Some did.

Sometimes you have one of those 8-2-5-1-3-1-5 rundown plays that get an outfielder an assist.

Alfonso Soriano was one of the worst defensive outfielders and anyone who has ever seen him would agree. In 7 years at Wrigley, he never learned how to play the wall. And he went through a stretch where he kept dropping routine flyballs that go so bad, fans gave him mock ovations for making routine plays.

He also had 98 outfield assists. Because, why not run on him? And while that looks like a lot of assists, what that number doesn't tell you is how many base runners challenged him and were successful. A number I assume is closer to 1,000 than it should be, if it doesn't exceed it outright...

[mvp 78]

When I pointed out outfield assists, it wasn't to imply Beni has the best arm, only that he isn't as inept as a few posters here insist. If a ballplayer leads the league in a positive stat at his position, he's at least doing his job. We also know the eye-test shows us that baserunners stopped running on Dewey Evans or Mookie -- affecting their numbers... or that the Red Sox won rings with true rag arms in center with Damon or Ellsbury.

It was only two years ago that Benintendi was chosen by professional observers as a finalist for the AL Gold Glove in left field. He also led the MLB postseason in runs scored in '18 and tied for the AL lead in hits with JD Martinez. But bodies can change quickly (Ozuna won Gold in '17 and now he's a DH). Maybe Andrew's dealing with a recurrent arm or leg injury; we shall see.

And what are your thoughts on Manny's defense?

[mvp 78]

Mot baserunners didn't run on them. Some did.

Sometimes you have one of those 8-2-5-1-3-1-5 rundown plays that get an outfielder an assist.

Alfonso Soriano was one of the worst defensive outfielders and anyone who has ever seen him would agree. In 7 years at Wrigley, he never learned how to play the wall. And he went through a stretch where he kept dropping routine flyballs that go so bad, fans gave him mock ovations for making routine plays.

He also had 98 outfield assists. Because, why not run on him? And while that looks like a lot of assists, what that number doesn't tell you is how many base runners challenged him and were successful. A number I assume is closer to 1,000 than it should be, if it doesn't exceed it outright...

Well, how would you quantify that or is it just more eye test stuff?

Soriano had a UZR/150's of 5.4/38.2/26.5 his first three years in the OF when he had 51 assists. He was second in dWAR for all OFers over that strecth. Seems pretty good, no?

[notin]

Well, how would you quantify that or is it just more eye test stuff?

Soriano had a UZR/150's of 5.4/38.2/26.5 his first three years in the OF when he had 51 assists. He was second in dWAR for all OFers over that strecth. Seems pretty good, no?

It was eye test stuff. Like I said, he couldn't play the wall in Wrigley even after 7 years there. He struggled to catch routine fly balls for a stretch.

UZR is a nice stat, but sometimes it also depends on the players around you. If the adjacent OF can take a lot of plays by covering part of your "zone," your UZR can suffer for it, as it's an in=zone play with no putout. Sort of like what we all watched Betts do to Bradley the last few years. So maybe Soriano, who did have some speed, leeched a few plays from his CF?

Remember, UZR is a comparison to average defenders. A bad player can look good if everyone else just sucks more....

[notin]

And what are your thoughts on Manny's defense?

Manny was about as extreme as it goes in both directions.

The guy could run circles under a routine pop up and misplay it int a 2 base hit for one hitter, and then follow up with a leaping home run grab in the stands where he not only high fives a fan, but then gets off the wall in time to complete the double play at second on the next hitter. (A compilation of two Manny plays that did not happen in the same inning.) He sometimes looked like he didn't care about defense, but then part of me was wondering if he was not trying to decoy runners into challenging him, as one thing he had going for him was a high-powered cannon for an arm. And like a lot of outfielders with great arms, I think he knew it.

Overall, I think he was a weak defensive outfielder who did not make MLB for his glove...

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

And what are your thoughts on Manny's defense?

Manny was a wingnut... and yet, teammates said he was one of the most focused hitters ever -- so it'd be hard to assess him with clinical DDD (Defensive Deficit Disorder). Though I never saw him swing his glove at an imaginary pitch, thinking of his next at bat (like Ted Williams supposedly did), he definitely lacked daisical out there. But I'd take him over Hanley, who it was said never practiced to improve his outfielding.

[moonslav59]

Manny worked harder at hitting than anyone I saw. He was usually the first to show up at the park and often the last to leave. This goes totally against what many felt was his "I could care less" or "lazy attitude."

He even went into the clubhouse or tunnels and took swings and watched films.

His calm nature at the plate was a big reason he was so successful. He rarely let 2-3 Ks affect his outlook on his next AB. He rarely argued with the umps or showed disgust after striking out.

I loved his offensive approach.

I won't talk about his D. We all know enough about that. (I loved when he cut of noodle-arm Damon's throw in CF. Shows you how weak Damon's arm was.)

[mvp 78]

Manny worked harder at hitting than anyone I saw. He was usually the first to show up at the park and often the last to leave..

He was not last to leave. He was known for driving home in his uni because he wanted to get out of there. I saw him in his car in traffic like 10-15 minutes after a game was over once.

[moonslav59]

He was not last to leave. He was known for driving home in his uni because he wanted to get out of there. I saw him in his car in traffic like 10-15 minutes after a game was over once.

"Often" does not mean always.

[Bellhorn04]

Manny was about as extreme as it goes in both directions.

The guy could run circles under a routine pop up and misplay it int a 2 base hit for one hitter, and then follow up with a leaping home run grab in the stands where he not only high fives a fan, but then gets off the wall in time to complete the double play at second on the next hitter.

Manny's high five play is one of the great baseball moments of all time.

[jad]

Manny was about as extreme as it goes in both directions.

The guy could run circles under a routine pop up and misplay it int a 2 base hit for one hitter, and then follow up with a leaping home run grab in the stands where he not only high fives a fan, but then gets off the wall in time to complete the double play at second on the next hitter. (A compilation of two Manny plays that did not happen in the same inning.) He sometimes looked like he didn't care about defense, but then part of me was wondering if he was not trying to decoy runners into challenging him, as one thing he had going for him was a high-powered cannon for an arm. And like a lot of outfielders with great arms, I think he knew it.

Overall, I think he was a weak defensive outfielder who did not make MLB for his glove...

The high-five to the fan, wheeling double-play was without question the most entertaining sports play I have ever seen. I also love the aftermath--the guys in the dugout showing the video to Mike Lowell, who had apparently not been watching.

As for his plate discipline, he was always perfectly balanced, as if never fooled by a pitch (even though of course he was). He made Ortiz look like a free-swinging hacker (which of course has its virtues too!)