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Thread: A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

  1. #886
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    No way do you get more than that for 1 year of Mookie.
    Maybe not, but we now know LA was thinking more like 13 years of Mookie. If Friedman was willing to make that kind of investment -- making Betts the Face of the Franchise for the next Dodger decade -- then he could've been pressed to add a pitching prospect... if Bloom had any leverage (which he did not, because of Price).

  2. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    If the Dodgers didn't want him, Bloom would have shopped Price to other teams. It's not like pitching (and pitching that is guaranteed to eat innings) is easy to come by.
    Nobody wanted Price at $32M x 3.

    I doubt anyone would have signed him for $16M x 3, last winter, so why would anyone trade for him?


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  3. #888
    TalkSox Godhead mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I doubt anyone would have signed him for $16M x 3, last winter, so why would anyone trade for him?


    I disagree with this with every fiber of my being.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    <<< Most normal poster on Talksox

  4. #889
    Off topic:

    Just wanted to send kudos out to Josh Donaldson for speaking out about the umpiring in MLB as being pathetic and free of accountability. IOW, pretty much what I and other posters on this forum have been saying for the last few years.
    Will his speaking out change anything? Yup, it will reduce the amount of cash in his pocket after the fine, but, as for improving the umpiring; not a chance.
    Last edited by SPLENDIDSPLINTER; 09-21-2020 at 03:20 PM.

  5. #890
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I disagree with this with every fiber of my being.
    Should I say it again?

  6. #891
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    Robot Umps Now!
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  7. #892
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I disagree with this with every fiber of my being.
    Maybe someday, one GM will talk in detail about the working of the deal.

    I could be wrong. I have been before, but I just don't see that kind of value in Price at his age and with his injury history.

    Maybe $16M x 1 or $28M x 2 would be the highest I think anyone would go, but $16M x 3?

    Most fibers in my being think no.
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  8. #893
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I disagree with this with every fiber of my being.
    I think if JA Happ could get $17M * 2 and Charlie Morton could get $15M * 2, Price could probably get $16M * 3.
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  9. #894
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    Maybe not, but we now know LA was thinking more like 13 years of Mookie. If Friedman was willing to make that kind of investment -- making Betts the Face of the Franchise for the next Dodger decade -- then he could've been pressed to add a pitching prospect... if Bloom had any leverage (which he did not, because of Price).
    That's what I think. Bloom insisted on LA taking Price, just like we insisted the Dodgers take Crawford to get AG.

    Had we not included Price, we might have gotten Verdugo and Strippling or Gonsolin. It appears we could have gotten Maeda but chose not to.
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  10. #895
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    I think if JA Happ could get $17M * 2 and Charlie Morton could get $15M * 2, Price could probably get $16M * 3.
    Morton was the same age as Price and had started 55 games in his previous 2 seasons with an ERA+ of 113 and 133. He got less money and less years than $16M x 3.

    Happ re-signed with the Yanks in 2018 after starting 56 games in his previous 2 years and 88 in his previous 3 years. His ERA+ was 163, 143 and 193 those 3 years. He was 35 when he signed- a little older than Price was when traded.

    Price started 52 games in the 2 years before being traded. He started 63 in his previous 3 seasons. His ERA+ was 76, 177, 128. He was 34 when traded.

    I'm not getting all the Price love after he was almost constantly bashed his whole time here, except for the last 2 rounds of the 2018 playoffs.

    Previous 3 year totals:

    Price: 122 ERA+, 63 GS/358 IP
    Happ: 125 ERA+, 88 GS/518 IP
    Morton: 121 ERA+, 59 GS/331 IP (was injured 3 years before signing.)
    -- 2 yrs 123 ERA+ 55 GS/314 IP

    Sure, some injury prone pitchers have gotten wild deals that seem unfathomable, and maybe some GM would take a chance like that, but I'd take the Morton and Happ deals over a 3 year deal for Price.
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  11. #896
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Morton was the same age as Price and had started 55 games in his previous 2 seasons with an ERA+ of 113 and 133. He got less money and less years than $16M x 3.

    Happ re-signed with the Yanks in 2018 after starting 56 games in his previous 2 years and 88 in his previous 3 years. His ERA+ was 163, 143 and 193 those 3 years. He was 35 when he signed- a little older than Price was when traded.

    Price started 52 games in the 2 years before being traded. He started 63 in his previous 3 seasons. His ERA+ was 76, 177, 128. He was 34 when traded.

    I'm not getting all the Price love after he was almost constantly bashed his whole time here, except for the last 2 rounds of the 2018 playoffs.

    Previous 3 year totals:

    Price: 122 ERA+, 63 GS/358 IP
    Happ: 125 ERA+, 88 GS/518 IP
    Morton: 121 ERA+, 59 GS/331 IP (was injured 3 years before signing.)
    -- 2 yrs 123 ERA+ 55 GS/314 IP

    Sure, some injury prone pitchers have gotten wild deals that seem unfathomable, and maybe some GM would take a chance like that, but I'd take the Morton and Happ deals over a 3 year deal for Price.
    Even if you prefer the Morton and Happ deals, they're obviously in the same ballpark with the one for Price. Happ's deal included a vesting option which could have made it 3 years.

    And Price has better career numbers than those two.

    16 * 3 for Price would be a little questionable, but certainly not outlandish.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

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  12. #897
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Even if you prefer the Morton and Happ deals, they're obviously in the same ballpark with the one for Price. Happ's deal included a vesting option which could have made it 3 years.

    And Price has better career numbers than those two.

    16 * 3 for Price would be a little questionable, but certainly not outlandish.
    I never said outlandish.

    I also think what you've done over the last 2-4 years means more than what you did 4-10 years ago. Sure, career number matter, but IMO, recent numbers matter more. Durability matters, too. The third year matters at that age.

    I agreed he might get $15M/1 or $28M/2, but I think $45M/3 is more than probably any team would offer. Yes, it only takes one GM, and there are countless of examples of injury-prone pitchers being signed to crazy deals, but maybe not many at age 34.
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  13. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    So you put bait out there for the purpose of getting angry at people who take it? Nice.

    Of course, you did receive multiple responses. not sure why mine was singled out so much except that I suggested you ignored history. It certainly can't be because I said something detrimental about Dombrowski; I didn't mention him at all, and didn't even discuss anything he did.

    But if you think Henry is just going to spend without limits, history has shown that to clearly be not true. And it happened before this season as well. Cherington took over a team in 2012 and was not allowed to spend to the point that he had to deal Marco Scutaro in order to add Cody Ross. Neither of those players had big money contracts. And he dialed back spending again prior to the 2017 season, when the Red Sox reset the tax burden a year prior to the Yankees and Dodgers, leaving the Sox as the sole big money bidders for the biggest name on the market in JD Martinez.

    When it comes to spending, as far as I can tell, Henry just doesn't want to keep repeatedly paying luxury tax payments, and wants to occasionally dial back and get under the limit for a single season so as to reduce his non-value added payments. Now in between those resets, his budget can be very accommodating...
    Oh notin just stop. I'm not angry with you or anyone else. If being called a jackass is offensive to you, I apologize. In my frenzied little circle of friends, it is a term of endearment.

  14. #899
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I never said outlandish.

    I also think what you've done over the last 2-4 years means more than what you did 4-10 years ago. Sure, career number matter, but IMO, recent numbers matter more. Durability matters, too. The third year matters at that age.

    I agreed he might get $15M/1 or $28M/2, but I think $45M/3 is more than probably any team would offer. Yes, it only takes one GM, and there are countless of examples of injury-prone pitchers being signed to crazy deals, but maybe not many at age 34.
    Did you count Price's 26 innings in the 2018 postseason?

    Did you account for the fact they shut him down early in 2019 because the team was out of it and there was no sense putting him at risk in meaningless games?

    He really only had that one injury-plagued season in 2017.

    In 2014-2016 he pitched mega-innings.

    Calling him "injury prone" is definitely overstating it.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    Theme song of 2020 Red Sox: "Tanks for the Memories"

  15. #900
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Charlie Morton had pitched more than 170 innings once in his whole career when the Rays signed him. Once - his career best 171.2 innings way back in 2011!

    A real horse!
    Last edited by Bellhorn04; 09-22-2020 at 07:24 AM.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    Theme song of 2020 Red Sox: "Tanks for the Memories"

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