While I get your point, I just attribute all deals under a GM to that GM. Except Hazen, although his departure might also explain Dombrowski’s sudden carelessness with some deals...Originally Posted by Kimmi
While I get your point, I just attribute all deals under a GM to that GM. Except Hazen, although his departure might also explain Dombrowski’s sudden carelessness with some deals...
But this is the fallout from that unprecedented run...
Oh I will do occasional “research,” by which I mean poking around sites like Fangraphs and B-R for some data.
And while I form staunch opinions, I can be convinced otherwise. (Something 5GoldGloves does more often than I care to admit)
Heck the very post you challenged me on was a point made by S5 that gave me pause. (S5 and I are not known to agree on things, going back to other websites, back when he just used the name “S5”).
But I also felt he made a rather astute observation and I threw some data behind it...
I don't see it that way, but I'm not blaming 98% on Bloom, either. If Dombro was still around, and ownership chose to pay the tax and stay competitive this year, there's no reason the Sox couldn't have acquired Ryu, Roark, Anderson, Walker, Ray and Stripling -- the six new starting pitchers Toronto added this season.
Instead, Boston the Franchise abstained... but it was Chaim Bloom -- not Dombrowski -- who picked up guys like Godley, Mazza, Brice, Osich, Springs, Valdez, Stock, Kickham, Triggs, Covey, Leyer and the mortal Matt Hall. It's hard to imagine Dombro combing the bargain bins in the first place... which is probably why he was fired and Bloom hired.
Maybe 2020 will be best remembered for Bloom getting Martin Perez, the ace who leads the club with three wins. Perez is certainly better than Andrew Cashner, Dombro's last starting pitcher added to the Sox a year ago. But most of Dave's starting mound recruits in Boston were worthy of the price at the time: Eovaldi, Pomeranz, Sale, Price (as most fans would agree). He was never in the position where he "wasn't allowed" to improve the Sox, as many feel Bloom has been in since his arrival. But now that the reset is reset, the pleasure -- and pressure -- will be all Bloom's...
I think that results are the most important thing . That is why we have scoreboards and standings of the clubs . Otherwise, we tend to succumb to favoritism and our own particular biases. We will have our favorites and our not so favorites. We will give our favorites credit for anything positive and blame the negative on someone else . And the reverse for our not so favorites. And that's okay. Human nature. But I think it is better and more fair to just look at the old scoreboard. No excuses, no rationalizing, no spin , no speculation . Just the results.
This is so true! And yes Hanley was also all on Larry as well.
Maybe one day we will learn just how much Larry interfered with cherrington, but most likely that day is not anytime soon!
And yes, these two bad Larry deals did screw the pooch for desperate Dave a little bit when desperate Dave was starting!
good
Well obviously i disagree with you but to be fair I don't recall ever getting to hung up on who the GM is or was. I'm not sure that my defending a person who I think did a good job running our team can be considered as calling him a great GM. I don't rate GM's, I defend them. I am a fan of whoever the current GM is. I think that blaming anyone for a past that you didn't happen to like is a bit of copout. Each of the GM's that we have had have had positives and negatives with respect to what they have done. Any criticism that I have levied toward Ben Cherington has been a direct result of the constant chatter aimed directly at trying to find fault with Dave Dombrowski. Dombrowski was much more my type of GM for sure but I'm not sure why that is even relevant these days. We have a new GM and I am a fan.
Is Dombrowski the only GM who's capable of spending a ton of money on free agents? Any GM who has an owner with an open checkbook can do that. The problem is that the checkbook will not remain open forever. A GM needs to take that into account, and I don't believe Dombrowski did.
It's because of Dombrowski's approach that Bloom was limited to picking up the guys that he did. If Dombrowski was told that he could not spend this year, then he would either have to shop in the bargain bin or simply not add anyone.
The problem is not with the guys that Bloom picked up, it's with the fact that we lost our top 3 starters. IMO, Perez is a solid #4 pitcher. The slew of bargain bin pitchers would have been more than fine as our #5 pitcher. But when injuries happen and your #4 guy becomes your #1, and your #5 candidates have to fill spots #2-5, it's a whole different picture that I don't think any GM can overcome without the ability to spend.
Results are ultimately the bottom line. It's not that simple though. You simply cannot look at the scoreboard this year and blame Bloom for the failure of the team without considering the state of the team inherited.
I'm willing to bet that Lucchino was the heavy hand behind several of those long term contracts.
Not to say that Theo and Ben didn't make their share of mistakes, but I think they would have made fewer is Lucchino left them alone to make the baseball ops decisions. Lucchino is a shrewd businessman. He should have stuck to the business aspect of the team.
That's pretty unfair IMHO. Too much credit to Ben. He left the team with little pitching and some horrible contracts. He was no Theo.
Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1
The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.
Dombrowski is a smart baseball man. I just don't agree with his philosophy of building baseball teams. That said, I have posted several times that I thought every move that he made in 2018 was on point.
I'm a Bloom fan because I believe in his team building philosophy. If he goes out and signs Bauer to a 7 year deal, I will criticize that move just as I would if Dombrowski made it.
1. I agree that Ben is no Theo. Theo is the GOAT.
2. I said Theo and Ben get 80% credit.
3. Ben was Theo's right hand man for all those years that Theo was at the helm. He gets part credit for Theo's moves.
4. Even though Ben might have left the team with no pitching, he left the team with a top 3 farm system, along with a core of cost-controlled MLB players. So the moves that Dombrowski made for pitching were only possible because of the resources that were left by Ben, both prospects and money.
That may be a proper rule, but sometimes you have to make exceptions.
Bloom walked into a hilariously bad state of affairs.
No manager, no Sale, no E-Rod, no farm, told to cut payroll, not add it. Forced to trade the team's best player for whatever he could get.
Sometimes circumstances have to be looked at.
Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1
The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.
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