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Thread: Why was Mookie traded, exactly?

  1. #796
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    Now come on. i'm speaking solely for myself here. I'm not taking any sides. That being said, I am not the one who feels as though they just can't help themselves from more nonsense spew with respect to DD. i'm pretty sure that as long as they feel the urge to continue flapping away about him, i'll continue to throw my two cents worth right back.
    That's what this site is designed for- discussion about anything to do with the Sox, and GM debates often go on forever.

    I'm fine with people giving their 2 cents, and yes, some in nonsense directed towards both Ben and DD.

    That's my 2 cents.
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  2. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    i'll of course admit that I did not nor do i now for that matter think that Ben Cherington was much of a GM but I don't think that these petty little jabs made of late have much to do with anything that I might have said. Past GMs don't really interest me as much as they seem to with respect to the "I hate (and forever will) Dave Dombrowski" crowd. Actually, it really isn't much of crowd.
    The "hate" Dombrowski cowd?
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  3. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    The "hate" Dombrowski cowd?

    The idea of hating DD is just one person's invention. Many may dislike the way he ran the payroll up with underperforming long term contracts. In addition, many are also exasperated with the dismantling of the minors. That's a different thing than hating DD. Most have moved on from DD to a discussion of what can be done to make the team more competitive in the long term.

  4. #799
    I think Alex Verdugo is going to be a stud, not as good as Mookie, but 300 million dollars + cheaper for 5 years. I firmly believe unless the Sox gave Mookie similar money (they weren't going to) he was going to leave Boston. You can't fall in love with these guys and it would be bad business to invest close to 1/2 a billion dollars when the offense is not your problem.

    The trade will look even better if Downs turns into your everyday 2nd baseman. Not sure he's ready yet so maybe they can get a Cesar Hernandez on a 1-year deal?

    In hindsight, I wonder what the market for Mookie Betts would have looked like this year if stayed with Boston? Team budgets are tight and people are afraid of making long-term commitments but at the same time, he would be the clear-cut top FA in the market.

  5. #800
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Red Sox fan named Hugh View Post
    In hindsight, I wonder what the market for Mookie Betts would have looked like this year if stayed with Boston? Team budgets are tight and people are afraid of making long-term commitments but at the same time, he would be the clear-cut top FA in the market.
    My guess on that hypothetical is that he would have signed with the Dodgers.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

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  6. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    My guess on that hypothetical is that he would have signed with the Dodgers.
    I probably agree, but without another ring and more national fame that came with starring in the '20 postseason, the contract would have been for less... maybe considerably less. We shall soon see how the bidding for top free agents plays out in this Covid winter.

  7. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    My guess on that hypothetical is that he would have signed with the Dodgers.
    Well, we do know they had the money and were willing to pay...

  8. #803
    The only thing that would have lost Mookie Money this year would be the Covid Market. Still, there's just no way to tell how a big market team might have responded. A team like TB needs to cut back in a covid world where NY or LA can just blink.

    Unfortunately, there is not a marquee FA to give us a template to go on. If there was, and the market is depressed, then you could argue a guy would take a one year deal and jump back in the waters next year.

    The one thing Mookie would have going for him is he would clearly be the best FA in the market (by a lot) and his value would be sky high right now. I suspect if he opted to sign a contract this offseason and Covid truly did drive the price down he still gets over 300 million.

  9. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Red Sox fan named Hugh View Post
    The only thing that would have lost Mookie Money this year would be the Covid Market. Still, there's just no way to tell how a big market team might have responded. A team like TB needs to cut back in a covid world where NY or LA can just blink.

    Unfortunately, there is not a marquee FA to give us a template to go on. If there was, and the market is depressed, then you could argue a guy would take a one year deal and jump back in the waters next year.

    The one thing Mookie would have going for him is he would clearly be the best FA in the market (by a lot) and his value would be sky high right now. I suspect if he opted to sign a contract this offseason and Covid truly did drive the price down he still gets over 300 million.
    Safe bet considering he did not sign his extension with LA until July, long after Spring Training had been cancelled and the season suspended due to COVID. So we do know what his minimum COVID World money would have looked like...

  10. #805
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtimer View Post

    The idea of hating DD is just one person's invention. Many may dislike the way he ran the payroll up with underperforming long term contracts. In addition, many are also exasperated with the dismantling of the minors. That's a different thing than hating DD. Most have moved on from DD to a discussion of what can be done to make the team more competitive in the long term.
    I dislike a few things he did, but overall, I'm glad we had him as our GM, and the great 2018 season outweighs the cliff we are in, now.
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  11. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Red Sox fan named Hugh View Post
    I think Alex Verdugo is going to be a stud, not as good as Mookie, but 300 million dollars + cheaper for 5 years. I firmly believe unless the Sox gave Mookie similar money (they weren't going to) he was going to leave Boston. You can't fall in love with these guys and it would be bad business to invest close to 1/2 a billion dollars when the offense is not your problem.

    The trade will look even better if Downs turns into your everyday 2nd baseman. Not sure he's ready yet so maybe they can get a Cesar Hernandez on a 1-year deal?

    In hindsight, I wonder what the market for Mookie Betts would have looked like this year if stayed with Boston? Team budgets are tight and people are afraid of making long-term commitments but at the same time, he would be the clear-cut top FA in the market.
    Yes, and Verdugo does not need to end up nearly as good as Betts. We traded 40% of a season from Betts for over 4 years of Verdugo.

    Downs and Wong can add gravy to the deal.

    Saving $16M a year on Price was also a plus, although some here feel otherwise.
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  12. #807
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Saving $16M a year on Price was also a plus, although some here feel otherwise.
    That kind of falls into the coin flip category.

    But the Hindsight Jury will make a final ruling after the 2021 or 2022 season. (It's possible that 2021 will decide it one way or the other.)
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  13. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    That kind of falls into the coin flip category.

    But the Hindsight Jury will make a final ruling after the 2021 or 2022 season. (It's possible that 2021 will decide it one way or the other.)
    Even if he does well, if he wouldn't have made a difference here with the Sox, and we spend those savings wisely to the point where we see a plus beyond 2021, it might still be a plus for us.
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  14. #809
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Even if he does well, if he wouldn't have made a difference here with the Sox, and we spend those savings wisely to the point where we see a plus beyond 2021, it might still be a plus for us.
    You can't really say for sure he would make no difference.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  15. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Even if he does well, if he wouldn't have made a difference here with the Sox, and we spend those savings wisely to the point where we see a plus beyond 2021, it might still be a plus for us.
    As Nadal said when asked if Kyrgios could be a top-10 player if he [X, Y, Z], "Eef eef eef."
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