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Thread: Bobby Dalbeck Thread

  1. #31
    TalkSox Godhead mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Jeez, the guy's name is not that difficult LOL
    Says you! Every other time I go to FanGraphs to look at Dalbec's stats, I type his name in as Brian Dalbec, the doppleganger for Bobby Daubach.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Cook View Post
    They used to say “you can shake any tree and good gloves will drop out, but rarely does one ever finds the tree with good bats.”

    Dalbec is looking more and more like the next Sam horn!
    It's a tiny sample size of a guy playing a new position.

    Sure, he may K like Horn, but he'll be a plus defender at 1B before too long.
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  3. #33
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    On TBS they said Dalbec can also pitch, and has a high-90's heater.
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  4. #34
    TalkSox Godhead mvp 78's Avatar
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    Yeah, he was drafted as a two way player, but Sox wanted his offense.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    On TBS they said Dalbec can also pitch, and has a high-90's heater.
    He has not pitched since college.

    The minors are loaded with position players who were good pitchers in college, and pitchers who were excellent college hitters. Until recently, no one pursued both paths even in the minors. But we are seeing an occasional player now who does, such as Tampa's Brendan McKay. But even in that case, McKay has not played any 1B since A ball.

    A few have done so in MLB recently, such as Cincinnati's Michael Lorenzen now plays the outfield on occasion. And Milwaukee had am outfielder in 2003-04 named Brooks Kieschnick who also pitched 96 IP in those years.

    But I think I'd be surprised if Dalbec ever took the mound in anything beyond a mop up capacity...

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    He has not pitched since college.

    The minors are loaded with position players who were good pitchers in college, and pitchers who were excellent college hitters. Until recently, no one pursued both paths even in the minors. But we are seeing an occasional player now who does, such as Tampa's Brendan McKay. But even in that case, McKay has not played any 1B since A ball.

    A few have done so in MLB recently, such as Cincinnati's Michael Lorenzen now plays the outfield on occasion. And Milwaukee had am outfielder in 2003-04 named Brooks Kieschnick who also pitched 96 IP in those years.

    But I think I'd be surprised if Dalbec ever took the mound in anything beyond a mop up capacity...
    I'm so done with drafting two-way guys because of raw tools instead of targeting projected MLB pitchers or MLB hitters. Frankie Rodriquez, Casey Kelly, Trey Ball -- that's enough -- none of them became Babe Ruth or Ohtani, and hardly anyone in history has ever been even a semi-regular as both a pitcher and regular position player at the same time because they all get injured and/or distracted trying to do one thing and then can't do the other.

    It just doesn't translate at the top level in the sport. Wakefield set a college record for home runs, and yet for some reason, no big league club even let him DH.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    I'm so done with drafting two-way guys because of raw tools instead of targeting projected MLB pitchers or MLB hitters. Frankie Rodriquez, Casey Kelly, Trey Ball -- that's enough -- none of them became Babe Ruth or Ohtani, and hardly anyone in history has ever been even a semi-regular as both a pitcher and regular position player at the same time because they all get injured and/or distracted trying to do one thing and then can't do the other.

    It just doesn't translate at the top level in the sport. Wakefield set a college record for home runs, and yet for some reason, no big league club even let him DH.
    Well, a lot of guys are two way players in college/high school but they are only developed in one of the two roles professionally.

    Jon Olerud was named Pac-10 Player of the Century because in his senior year, he hit 23 HRs and went 15-0 on the mound. The Blue Jays drafted him that year, but he never pitched an inning for their organization. And then there is Micah Owings, who is the all time home run leader for the Georgia Bulldogs, but went on professionally as a pitcher.

    You can't avoid these two way guys, but it's rare to let them actually pursue both paths...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Well, a lot of guys are two way players in college/high school but they are only developed in one of the two roles professionally.

    Jon Olerud was named Pac-10 Player of the Century because in his senior year, he hit 23 HRs and went 15-0 on the mound. The Blue Jays drafted him that year, but he never pitched an inning for their organization. And then there is Micah Owings, who is the all time home run leader for the Georgia Bulldogs, but went on professionally as a pitcher.

    You can't avoid these two way guys, but it's rare to let them actually pursue both paths...
    I think his post is to stay away from "toolsy" guys. If there is a projection of hitter OR pitcher (i.e. not both), I think 5g is fine with it.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    I'm so done with drafting two-way guys because of raw tools instead of targeting projected MLB pitchers or MLB hitters. Frankie Rodriquez, Casey Kelly, Trey Ball -- that's enough -- none of them became Babe Ruth or Ohtani, and hardly anyone in history has ever been even a semi-regular as both a pitcher and regular position player at the same time because they all get injured and/or distracted trying to do one thing and then can't do the other.

    It just doesn't translate at the top level in the sport. Wakefield set a college record for home runs, and yet for some reason, no big league club even let him DH.

    I actually cannot think of any player that any team ever even tried to develop as a position player and a pitcher at the same time. Brendan McKay is the closest I can think of, and he has not played the field since A-ball. Plenty of these two-way types have switched from hitter to pitcher or vice versa at some point, either in the minors (like Matt Bush, Joe Nathan, Rafael Betancourt, Sean Doolittle, and Trevor Hoffman) or in many cases, the majors (Babe Ruth, Lefty O'Doul, Rick Ankiel). The Sox also drafted current Giants 1B Brandon Belt as a pitcher at one time.

    Sometimes, having both skills gives a player struggling to advance another path he can follow. In cases like former Red Sox CF/LHRP Ron Mahay, it lead to actually having a Major League career. Former Red Sox farmhand Jordan Weems has managed to make the A's bullpen this season after going nowhere as a catcher for years...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I think his post is to stay away from "toolsy" guys. If there is a projection of hitter OR pitcher (i.e. not both), I think 5g is fine with it.
    I don't think the Sox drafted Trey Ball or Dalbec with both paths in mind...

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I think his post is to stay away from "toolsy" guys. If there is a projection of hitter OR pitcher (i.e. not both), I think 5g is fine with it.
    Yes, thanks. Maybe the Red Sox of the past were just appeasing (I'm not going to say patronizing) these "two-way" draftees early on, until they realized they'd better focus on one direction. After all, doesn't every Little League All-Star start his career as an ace pitcher who also plays shortstop or catcher and bats clean-up?

    Of course, there are plenty of cases of guys converting from regular to pitcher or vice versa. The reverse of Ruth was maybe Bob Lemon, third baseman before WWII, Hall of Fame pitcher after the war. Javy Guerra was once a highly-regarded shortstop prospect that the Sox sent to SD in the Kimbrel trade; now he's a reliever.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    Yes, thanks. Maybe the Red Sox of the past were just appeasing (I'm not going to say patronizing) these "two-way" draftees early on, until they realized they'd better focus on one direction. After all, most every Little League All-Star starts his career as an ace pitcher who also plays shortstop or catcher and bats clean-up.

    Of course, there are plenty of cases of guys converting from regular to pitcher or vice versa. The reverse of Ruth was maybe Bob Lemon, third baseman before WWII, Hall of Fame pitcher after the war. Javy Guerra was once a highly-regarded shortstop prospect that the Sox sent to SD in the Kimbrel trade; now he's a reliever.
    Othani was not brought up as a 2 way player in America, but he's the only recent one I can think f that has shown he can be good at both.
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  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Well, a lot of guys are two way players in college/high school but they are only developed in one of the two roles professionally.

    Jon Olerud was named Pac-10 Player of the Century because in his senior year, he hit 23 HRs and went 15-0 on the mound. The Blue Jays drafted him that year, but he never pitched an inning for their organization. And then there is Micah Owings, who is the all time home run leader for the Georgia Bulldogs, but went on professionally as a pitcher.

    You can't avoid these two way guys, but it's rare to let them actually pursue both paths...
    The John Olerud Award has been given each year since 2010 to the best two-way player at the college level. Eventual Red Sox lefthander Brian Johnson won the award in 2012 out of the University of Florida.

    What John Olerud Award winner (who has taken a single path) has posted the highest WAR at the MLB level?

  14. #44
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    On TBS they said Dalbec can also pitch, and has a high-90's heater.
    I must say it would be kind of cool to be able to throw high-90's heat, and hit the ball 450 feet.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    I must say it would be kind of cool to be able to throw high-90's heat, and hit the ball 450 feet.
    It makes you the next Adam Jones...

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