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Thread: 2020-2021 Offseason Thread

  1. #1441
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    I'm still waiting for Dombrowski to make moves from the 2019 off-season...
    Yes, when's he going to sign some relievers?
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  2. #1442
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Compared to what, though? The last two offseasons were glacially slow.
    I'm terrible with dates.

    Now that you mention it, last year was very slow at this time, too.

    2018? That's way too long ago for me to remember!

    (lol)
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  3. #1443
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    I can agree it is not the optimum move. He was drafted as a CF, but was obviously moef to LF for a reason. and it was not due to the logjam the Sox had in CF, since they were trying anyone and everyone out there (Bradley, Betts, Castillo).

    But on the other hand, if the Sox had a good defensive LF and put Benintendi between to good outfielders, it would lessen his impact. and if he was coupled with a RHH platoon option/defensive replacement, it would help even more. Someone like Almora or Marisnick, for example.

    Or the Sox could sign one of the rifle-armed RF options like Puig, Eaton or Renfroe and slide Verdugo into CF. Still, if Benintendi does not turn something around, is he still a full time option in LF? Or is he a lesser version of Joc Pederson?

    Should the Sox look into a platoon partner for Benintedi, regardless of where he plays?
    To me, the unique configuration of Fenway's CF, and the need for a stronger-than-normal arm in CF (and RF) make moving Beni to CF very undesirable.

    On platooning him. I was calling for that before his offensive decline.

    Even his best season (2018) showed the need to think about a platoon:

    vs RHP: .877
    vs LHP: .694 (not God-awful, but still the best he ever had, other than what might be seen as a fluke in 2019)

    2016: .984 v .429
    2017: .813 v .622
    2019: .764 v .796

    Career: .821 v .691

    Now, people have pointed out that Yaz had a career OPS vs LHPs of .692, but he was an amazing defender. He also hit lefties much better earlier in his career, so maybe the platoon idea might have made some sense later in his career, but with a HOF'er, it's a tough choice for a manager to make without making waves. (Also, it's not like the Sox had many better options vs LHPs back in the 60's and 70's.)

    Last edited by moonslav59; 12-03-2020 at 12:12 PM.
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  4. #1444
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    To me, the unique configuration of Fenway's CF, and the need for a stronger-than-normal arm in CF (and RF) make moving Beni to CF very undesirable.

    On platooning him. I was calling for that before his offensive decline.

    Even his best season (2018) showed the need to think about a platoon:

    vs RHP: .877
    vs LHP: .694 (not God-awful, but still the best he ever had, other than what might be seen as a fluke in 2019)

    2016: .984 v .429
    2017: .813 v .622
    2019: .764 v .796

    Career: .821 v .691

    Well, you always call for platoons early.

    At this point, a platoon is more about cutting into his playing time more so than trying to cover up his weaknesses. Taking him out vs LHP is just an excuse to do so.

    Now the Sox do have one guy on their team who can hit LHP pretty well and has no position. Maybe Chavis can handle LF part time? I know the only reason the Sox trotted him out here last year was because they were running out of outfielders, but Chavis isn't going anywhere (who would want him?) and can hit LHP and really has never established himself as owning any infield position defensively. A Benintedi-Chavis platoon in LF? Sign/trade for a CF (Still liking Inciarte here.) and Verdugo in RF.

  5. #1445
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    But Flahery also only has one season above 2.3 fWAR. And he has only pitched one less season than Snell. (His higher trade value is strongly influenced to his lower salary.)

    Snell does only have one season above 2.7 fWAR, but he has also only pitched 157 IP in two seasons since his breakout year. In 2019, he managed to be worth 2.7 fWAR in 107 innings! It is not the talent that is the issue with Snell...
    Another thing that concerns me about Snell is the Trop Dump effect. His road ERA is about 1.5 runs higher and his road OPS is about 100 points higher.

    It's like the Coors Field effect in reverse...
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    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  6. #1446
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Well, you always call for platoons early.

    At this point, a platoon is more about cutting into his playing time more so than trying to cover up his weaknesses. Taking him out vs LHP is just an excuse to do so.

    Now the Sox do have one guy on their team who can hit LHP pretty well and has no position. Maybe Chavis can handle LF part time? I know the only reason the Sox trotted him out here last year was because they were running out of outfielders, but Chavis isn't going anywhere (who would want him?) and can hit LHP and really has never established himself as owning any infield position defensively. A Benintedi-Chavis platoon in LF? Sign/trade for a CF (Still liking Inciarte here.) and Verdugo in RF.
    Agreed on all points.

    I don't see LF as an area we need to prioritize, at this point, and if it is a problem during a playoff-contending run in 2021, then finding a LF'er or platoon LF'er mid season is usually not all that hard or expensive.

    Pitching is clearly our #1 need. It's number 2 and 3 as well, but CF (or RF with Verdugo moving to CF) is, by far, our biggest non-pitching need area.
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  7. #1447
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Compared to what, though? The last two offseasons were glacially slow.
    Every offseason is slower than expected. I remember a former hewhomustnotbenamed poster who would go on and on that no moves had been made by Thanksgiving. The winter meetings just aren't that important in the age of texting.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  8. #1448
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Another thing that concerns me about Snell is the Trop Dump effect. His road ERA is about 1.5 runs higher and his road OPS is about 100 points higher.

    It's like the Coors Field effect in reverse...
    That playing at the Trop is so depressing that opposing teams just don't feel like hitting there?
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  9. #1449
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    To me, the unique configuration of Fenway's CF, and the need for a stronger-than-normal arm in CF (and RF) make moving Beni to CF very undesirable.

    On platooning him. I was calling for that before his offensive decline.

    Even his best season (2018) showed the need to think about a platoon:

    vs RHP: .877
    vs LHP: .694 (not God-awful, but still the best he ever had, other than what might be seen as a fluke in 2019)

    2016: .984 v .429
    2017: .813 v .622
    2019: .764 v .796

    Career: .821 v .691

    Now, people have pointed out that Yaz had a career OPS vs LHPs of .692, but he was an amazing defender. He also hit lefties much better earlier in his career, so maybe the platoon idea might have made some sense later in his career, but with a HOF'er, it's a tough choice for a manager to make without making waves. (Also, it's not like the Sox had many better options vs LHPs back in the 60's and 70's.)

    Beni can play center but isn't an optimum defender. He is better suited to left in Fenway but of course half the games are played in other parks. His bat is a significant question now as well. I know his trade value is low at this point but if we hold onto him and he lays an egg for$6.5Mil when we could have made a change, then we have made a bad gamble.

  10. #1450
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Every offseason is slower than expected. I remember a former hewhomustnotbenamed poster who would go on and on that no moves had been made by Thanksgiving. The winter meetings just aren't that important in the age of texting.
    1. @jeff_wax

    Red Sox are great at “checking in on” available players and not signing them. Nobody does it better.


    2. @SPChrisHatfield
    Another favorite, the "the Red Sox aren't one of the 6 or 7 teams to sign a free agent so far, and therefore the GM isn't doing his job" early offseason tweet.

    Friend, 11 guys have signed, and like 5 or 6 of consequence. Be patient. There's another 3.5 months or so left.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  11. #1451
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtimer View Post
    Beni can play center but isn't an optimum defender. He is better suited to left in Fenway but of course half the games are played in other parks. His bat is a significant question now as well. I know his trade value is low at this point but if we hold onto him and he lays an egg for$6.5Mil when we could have made a change, then we have made a bad gamble.
    With so many CF options out there, other than Beni, I fail to see how that could end up being the best choice.
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  12. #1452
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    1. @jeff_wax

    Red Sox are great at “checking in on” available players and not signing them. Nobody does it better.


    2. @SPChrisHatfield
    Another favorite, the "the Red Sox aren't one of the 6 or 7 teams to sign a free agent so far, and therefore the GM isn't doing his job" early offseason tweet.

    Friend, 11 guys have signed, and like 5 or 6 of consequence. Be patient. There's another 3.5 months or so left.
    Nice!
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  13. #1453
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    1. @jeff_wax

    Red Sox are great at “checking in on” available players and not signing them. Nobody does it better.


    2. @SPChrisHatfield
    Another favorite, the "the Red Sox aren't one of the 6 or 7 teams to sign a free agent so far, and therefore the GM isn't doing his job" early offseason tweet.

    Friend, 11 guys have signed, and like 5 or 6 of consequence. Be patient. There's another 3.5 months or so left.
    And then there is the inevitable comment after a routine minor league deal is given to an obscure player - "Print the post-season tickets!!"

  14. #1454
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    And then there is the inevitable comment after a routine minor league deal is given to an obscure player - "Print the post-season tickets!!"
    Those are just delightful.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  15. #1455
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Those are just delightful.
    A Clint Eastwood favorite.
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    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

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