Any major league calibre pitching help is good pitching help! We are beyond desperate!
Any major league calibre pitching help is good pitching help! We are beyond desperate!
Yes. I would much prefer to go after young pitching talent starting to bloom, but I don't see many teams willing to deal that kind of pitching talent?
RedSoxDirtdog 19
Calm down. I've been tamed.
The Red Sox and Seattle Mariners are likely suitors for Joe Musgrove and Jameson Taillon.Originally Posted by notin
Let's develop what we have. It is very difficult to obtain top pitching prospects from other teams. Bloom took a chance on a guy like Pivetta and that is probably the best we can do with lower cost pitchers with talent. He had to take a risk with the history of flaws. One right guess of that type can really help the team.
Agreed.
And the Mariners are better positioned if/when the Rays make Blake Snell available, since the Seattle farm is better and they're not in the AL East.
In fact, the Red Sox might be better positioned to get Taillon and/or Musgrove, since our farm has no untouchables. Sometimes these GMs focus a bit too much on the top tier guys and walk away if they cannot pry them loose. If you think about it, that's how Musgrove got to Pittsburgh in the first place, isn't it? (Hint: The Yankees refusal to part with Gleyber Torres.) So if Cherington insists on Kelenic and /or Dunn, it really helps out the Sox...
Musgrove has some decent analytics. He is a guy that could thrive in our organization.
Going with Houck sounds even better.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red...hat-comes-next
RedSoxDirtdog 19
Calm down. I've been tamed.
Why does it have to be one or the other?
Definitely not. Both would be great... maybe?
But, what do we have to give up to pick up that 1 year $17M contract to get him.
I have no problem going 4 years on a quality pitcher.
1 year is no risk, unless the Yankees want a big return on their investment. I assume they would want something substantial? If they can pick up Happ & give up next to nothing, I say we do both. OBVIOUSLY, the Sox are desperate for pitching. Who knows how long it takes to get Sale back? Yes. We got a World Series with Price & Sale, but right now they both look like major busts.
It's a tough pitchers market out there, but we've got to put something together to anchor this starting rotation.
RedSoxDirtdog 19
Calm down. I've been tamed.
I might prefer 2 years of Taillon over 2 arb years of Musgrove, but I think, if we take on Polanco's contract with any deal we make with the Pirates, the return would not have to be all that much.
Polanco is owed $11.6M/1.
Musgrove has 1 arb year left (est at $3.75M).
Taillon has 2 arb years left (est at $2.25M).
Trade Values:
Musgrove 36.4
Taillon 20.3
Polanco -13.5
The trade values site accepted these deals:
Chavis for Polanco & Taillon
Duran, Chavis and Groome for Polanco & Musgrove.
Dalbec, Duran, Chatham, Ward & Groome for Polanco, Musgrove & Taillon
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
No chance we give up those bats and potential for the piss poor bat of Polanco and big question mark that is Musgrave.
Mark me down for Option A; I can't see trading young pitching prospects for older pitchers with "upside" (translation: guys who have so far shown more downside, if not backside). Option C looks like a steal for Ben, with two potential position regulars -- maybe even in '21 -- and two future replacements on the mound.
Polanco is obviously the key to any deal, as Pitt desperately needs to delete his contract before another Covid season. Boston's reset budget can afford to absorb his $11.6M salary as the price to pay in order to upgrade the rotation. Polanco looks cooked, but maybe he can use a change of scenery -- like the one down the rightfield line in Yankee Stadium when he pinch-hits vs. a righty. According to bref (if I'm reading correctly), his deal has a team option buyout of $3M after next season, with another of $1M the year after...
Chavis is likely a dud.
Groome & Ward have potential.
I like Dalbec, but getting both SP'ers is worth it.
I'd do any of these trades in a heart beat.
Polanco could be DFA'd and the trades would still be worth it. 2 years of either pitcher are worth what Polanco is being paid.
Out of the 124 pitchers with 400+ IP since 2026, here's how the two starters rank in these categories:
WAR
47. Taillon 9.5 (Bumgarner 9.8)
60. Musgrove 8.2 (Leake 8.6)
ERA-
42. Taillon 89 (same as ERod- Lester was 87)
84.Musgrove 104
xFIP-
34. Taillon 88 (Price 87/S Gray 88)
44. Musgrove 93 (Gausman & Quintana 93)
Musgrove looks better over the last 3 years (131 pitchers with 220+ IP)
WAR
35. Musgrove 6.6 (Tanaka 6.5/Porcello 5.9)
61. Taillon 4.7 (Price 4.8/ Yarbrough 4.6)
ERA-
31. Taillon 83 (same as Price)
75.Musgrove 101 (Gausman 101)
xFIP-
32. Taillon 89 (same as Price, Tanaka & Stroman)
54. Musgrove 94 (R Ray 94/ Happ 98)
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
Musgrove and Tailon are still squarely in prime for both of their remaining arb years. I'm seeing recent improvement- not backsliding with both.
Taillon just turned 29 ten days ago. He had a 3.55 ERA and 1.169 WHIP from 2018-2019. Those numbers blow away any of our current and healthy SP'ers.
Musgrove turns 28 in five days. His 4.23 ERA and 1.205 WHIP also compares very well with our starters.
Both are in the meat of their prime years.
Neither are aces, but we need rotation depth and quality. I'd still seek a #1-2 type, but these trades do not use any of our best trading chips or cost all that much on our spending budget.
Last edited by moonslav59; 11-28-2020 at 04:24 PM.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
Duran, Mata, Chavis, Beni & Chatham
for
Taillon, Musgrove & Polanco
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
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