What's Happ

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Duran, Mata, Chavis, Beni & Chatham
for
Taillon, Musgrove & Polanco

I'm on the record for keeping Mata, our top pitching prospect (who I expect to see in the majors sometime in '21). I also wouldn't trade Casas, who is still growing while still improving. Who would you say are our top trading chips this winter, from the majors and then also from the minors? Because of contracts -- and assuming the Red Sox want to build around Devers and Verdugo -- I'd consider the following as the most valued chips: Vazquez, Dalbec, Hernandez, Chavis (Barnes?) from the 25-man, and Downs, Duran, Jimenez, Groome, Ward etc. from the minors.

Any of them could be moved, and it won't move the Earth.

[moonslav59]

I'm on the record for keeping Mata, our top pitching prospect (who I expect to see in the majors sometime in '21). I also wouldn't trade Casas, who is still growing while still improving. Who would you say are our top trading chips this winter, from the majors and then also from the minors? Because of contracts -- and assuming the Red Sox want to build around Devers and Verdugo -- I'd consider the following as the most valued chips: Vazquez, Dalbec, Hernandez, Chavis (Barnes?) from the 25-man, and Downs, Duran, Jimenez, Groome, Ward etc. from the minors.

Any of them could be moved, and it won't move the Earth.

I'd rather trade Groome + Ward than Mata, but my thoughts are that Pittsburgh will want some top talent for those two decent starter- both in their prime, and both with 2 years of team control remaining.

I agree on trying to keep the core of Devers, Casas, Mata & Verdugo with DHern & Dalbec as two I'd only let go for worthwhile returns.

Looking at the values assigned to our trading chips by the Trade Values site, I'd say these are the most tradable players on our roster:

21.0 Vaz
12.1 Duran
8.5 Jimenez
7.5 Chavis
5.5 Beni
4.9 Chatham

Maybe Downs at 26.4

[Sox75]

idk I really want to see what Groome becomes.

Any chance he's ready by 22?

[Larry Cook]

idk I really want to see what Groome becomes.

Any chance he's ready by 22?

I don’t think so. Late 2023 would be more realistic.

[oldtimer]

I'd rather trade Groome + Ward than Mata, but my thoughts are that Pittsburgh will want some top talent for those two decent starter- both in their prime, and both with 2 years of team control remaining.

I agree on trying to keep the core of Devers, Casas, Mata & Verdugo with DHern & Dalbec as two I'd only let go for worthwhile returns.

Looking at the values assigned to our trading chips by the Trade Values site, I'd say these are the most tradable players on our roster:

21.0 Vaz
12.1 Duran
8.5 Jimenez
7.5 Chavis
5.5 Beni
4.9 Chatham

Maybe Downs at 26.4

In the immortal words or Ronald Reagan, "There you go again". I'm just glad we have Bloom at the helm since I expect that he will stick to the plan of making the team consistently competitive. I see him making an effort to hang onto our best young talent while dealing away those who don't fit that description.

DHern is in an area of critical need and should be kept. We can probably do better than Chavis and that applies to Beni as well. Dalbec is worth keeping but is certainly no shoo-in, especially since Casas may be a long term MLer at the same position. Downs and Duran are young and promising and should be kept. JDM does not fit the plan that well but is probably not tradable. I'll wait to see how Bloom goes, but I hope he really sticks with the plan.

[notin]

I'd rather trade Groome + Ward than Mata, but my thoughts are that Pittsburgh will want some top talent for those two decent starter- both in their prime, and both with 2 years of team control remaining.

I agree on trying to keep the core of Devers, Casas, Mata & Verdugo with DHern & Dalbec as two I'd only let go for worthwhile returns.

Looking at the values assigned to our trading chips by the Trade Values site, I'd say these are the most tradable players on our roster:

21.0 Vaz
12.1 Duran
8.5 Jimenez
7.5 Chavis
5.5 Beni
4.9 Chatham

Maybe Downs at 26.4

Downs and Vazquez head the list...

[moonslav59]

In the immortal words or Ronald Reagan, "There you go again". I'm just glad we have Bloom at the helm since I expect that he will stick to the plan of making the team consistently competitive. I see him making an effort to hang onto our best young talent while dealing away those who don't fit that description.

DHern is in an area of critical need and should be kept. We can probably do better than Chavis and that applies to Beni as well. Dalbec is worth keeping but is certainly no shoo-in, especially since Casas may be a long term MLer at the same position. Downs and Duran are young and promising and should be kept. JDM does not fit the plan that well but is probably not tradable. I'll wait to see how Bloom goes, but I hope he really sticks with the plan.

Dalbec can play 1B or 3B. By the time Casas is ready, Devers will be a FA.

[moonslav59]

Downs and Vazquez head the list...

Agreed, but if Bloom really likes Downs and sees him as part of the future "foundation," he may be near "off-limits."

That's why I listed him separately. Keeping your best 2-3 prospects is usually, but not always, part of a plan to rebuild for long term success.

[moonslav59]

[B]In the immortal words or Ronald Reagan, "There you go again". I'm just glad we have Bloom at the helm since I expect that he will stick to the plan of making the team consistently competitive. I see him making an effort to hang onto our best young talent while dealing away those who don't fit that description.

That's why I left Casas and Downs off the list.

I included Duran, because I don't share the same optimism on him as many here. Maybe Bloom disagrees with me, and I trust he knows more about him than I do.

These are just my opinions.

For all we know, Chavis, Chatham and Duran could end up being better than Dalbec, Downs and Casas.

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

That's why I left Casas and Downs off the list.

I included Duran, because I don't share the same optimism on him as many here. Maybe Bloom disagrees with me, and I trust he knows more about him than I do.

These are just my opinions.

For all we know, Chavis, Chatham and Duran could end up being better than Dalbec, Downs and Casas.

... and it could even be in a different industry, since they all could be out of baseball in a few years.

I was looking back at the Red Sox top 10, 20, 30 prospects from a decade ago; yikes. But somehow, Epstein pulled off the Adrian Gonzo trade -- a blockbuster at the time. AG was a number one overall draft pick and a budding star. The key guy going back to SD turned out to be Rizzo -- instead of the overrated Lars Anderson.

Theo knew it, too, because the first thing he did when he joined the Cubs was to get Rizzo back (though he had to force himself to part with Andrew Cashner).

[notin]

... and it could even be in a different industry, since they all could be out of baseball in a few years.

I was looking back at the Red Sox top 10, 20, 30 prospects from a decade ago; yikes. But somehow, Epstein pulled off the Adrian Gonzo trade -- a blockbuster at the time. AG was a number one overall draft pick and a budding star. The key guy going back to SD turned out to be Rizzo -- instead of the overrated Lars Anderson.

Theo knew it, too, because the first thing he did when he joined the Cubs was to get Rizzo back (though he had to force himself to part with Andrew Cashner).

I’ve always linked Rizzo with Jed Hoyer. Hoyer was with the Sox when he was drafted, and was the GM in both San Diego and the Cubs when each team acquired Rizzo.

Could be a coincidence, but they were my thoughts at the time...

[Bellhorn04]

I’ve always linked Rizzo with Jed Hoyer. Hoyer was with the Sox when he was drafted, and was the GM in both San Diego and the Cubs when each team acquired Rizzo.

Could be a coincidence, but they were my thoughts at the time...

Sounds pretty plausible to me. The dots connect.

[moonslav59]

... and it could even be in a different industry, since they all could be out of baseball in a few years.

I was looking back at the Red Sox top 10, 20, 30 prospects from a decade ago; yikes. But somehow, Epstein pulled off the Adrian Gonzo trade -- a blockbuster at the time. AG was a number one overall draft pick and a budding star. The key guy going back to SD turned out to be Rizzo -- instead of the overrated Lars Anderson.

Theo knew it, too, because the first thing he did when he joined the Cubs was to get Rizzo back (though he had to force himself to part with Andrew Cashner).

Those farms certainly had some low points, but under Theo and Ben, there were some rock solid ones, too.

The year you speak of, 2010, was not the worst.

#1 Kelly was highly regarded and was part of that AGon trade with #3 Rizzo.

Kalish was #3, Iggy #4, Doubront #5, Reddick 8, Workman 19 and Westmoreland- a very sad case. After that trade, our farm hit one of its lowest point in the last 2 decades, but soon Bogey and others beefed it back up.

Here's a sampling of a few select years top prospects (soxprospects.com):

2003: (farm left to Theo) HRam, Youk, Lester, Freddy Sanchez, J de la Rosa, Shoppach, David Murphy, Delcarmen

2004: Lester, HRam, Youk, Papelbon, A Sanchez, Moss, Shoppach, Delcarmen

2007: Ellsbury, Buchholz, Pedey, Masterson, Lowrie, Moss, Reddick, Gabbard, Doubroint, Bard

2012: (farm left by Theo for Ben): Bogey, Barnes, Iggy, Alex Wilson, Middy, Kalish, Ranuado, Swihart, Brentz, Lava

2013: Betts, Bogey, JBJ, Barnes, Vazquez, Iggy, Workman, A Wilson, Margot

2015: (the farm left by Ben for DD) Moncada, Devers, ERod, Margot, Espinoza, Beni, Kopech, Allen, Chavis, T Shaw, Dubon, J Guerra, B Johnson

2018: Dalbec, Groome, Mata, DHern, Casas, Beeks, Chavis

2019: (the farm DD left Bloom): Casas, Mata, Groome, Jimenez, Dalbec, Duran, Houck, Song, Chatham, Ward

[mvp 78]

That 2012 prospect list isn’t that good.

[moonslav59]

That 2012 prospect list isn’t that good.

No, and that should be part of the equation when judging Ben's whole body of work those 4 years.

Also, Theo spoke about moving away from their success model in his later years with the Sox.