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Thread: Yanks acquire Jameson Taillon

  1. #31
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Kimmi is one of the last bastion of Sox homers who thinks the Sox have a chance in 21, so she’s projecting her hopes rather than real likelihood’s or what she actually knows is true.

    You cannot keep all your prospects. 2 were already on the 40 man and Smith could have needed to be added by the end of 21. And we dealt NONE of our top 14 prospects. Zero, zilch, nada. And we got a guy with ace stuff and ace upside who will leave Pitt and adopt the same philosophy that Cole did when he left Pitt. This kid is healthy now and under control for two seasons. I’m expecting huge things out of him
    I am, too, but my point was about this deal being pretty close to a zero risk deal.

    You have so many good prospects and your 40 man roster is deep. You'd likely have had to DFA or trade away equals to the guys you gave PIT for Taillon.

    Frankly, I was shocked at how little they took back. I wish the Sox had offered more.

    I do think Taillon will do very well, but if never throws a pitch for the Yanks, you barely lost anything. Your SP'er depth is so deep, it's not like you structured your team around Taillon's success.
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  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I am, too, but my point was about this deal being pretty close to a zero risk deal.

    You have so many good prospects and your 40 man roster is deep. You'd likely have had to DFA or trade away equals to the guys you gave PIT for Taillon.

    Frankly, I was shocked at how little they took back. I wish the Sox had offered more.

    I do think Taillon will do very well, but if never throws a pitch for the Yanks, you barely lost anything. Your SP'er depth is so deep, it's not like you structured your team around Taillon's success.
    I agree with everything in your post. Spot on
    Hal sucks

  3. #33
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    I agree with everything in your post. Spot on
    Maybe I need to re-examine my thoughts.

    LOL!
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  4. #34
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    It was a sterling move by Cashman, without a doubt.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Kimmi is one of the last bastion of Sox homers who thinks the Sox have a chance in 21, so she’s projecting her hopes rather than real likelihood’s or what she actually knows is true.

    You cannot keep all your prospects. 2 were already on the 40 man and Smith could have needed to be added by the end of 21. And we dealt NONE of our top 14 prospects. Zero, zilch, nada. And we got a guy with ace stuff and ace upside who will leave Pitt and adopt the same philosophy that Cole did when he left Pitt. This kid is healthy now and under control for two seasons. I’m expecting huge things out of him
    I wanted Taillon in Boston, but pretending he is healthy does not make it so. Part of his availability was due to the significant health risk, which is why Cherington traded him NOW instead of waiting until July or until next season. His salary for 2021 is only $2.25 mill, so it's not like this is some sort of huge savings. Get real. Colin Moran makes more money than Taillon! Colin Freakin' Moran!!!!! And when the dust settles, Steve Brault and Chad Kuhl likely as well. But those guys are all good bets to make it throguh a season so the impetus to deal immediately them is lessened. And THAT is why the Yankees got him so quickly and so cheaply, and probably also why a lot of other teams did not even get involved in the bidding, including the Red Sox. Do you honestly think those borderline Yankee prospects represented a better offer than any other team could have made for a healthy starting pticher who was a former #2 overall pick and makes less than $3mill and has 2 full seasons of control?

    Your post above actually makes it sound like you do.

    Those multi-TJ pitchers do not have long shelf lives. Taillon is good, and he is a worthwhile gamble. But there is the reason he was available now and came so cheaply, and also why a lot of teams backed off...
    Last edited by notin; 01-26-2021 at 10:36 AM.

  6. #36
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    I wanted Taillon in Boston, but pretending he is healthy does not make it so. Part of his availability was due to the significant health risk, which is why Cherington traded him NOW instead of waiting until July or until next season. His salary for 2021 is only $2.25 mill, so it's not like this is some sort of huge savings. Get real. Colin Moran makes more money than Taillon! Colin Freakin' Moran!!!!! And when the dust settles, Steve Brault and Chad Kuhl likely as well. But those guys are all good bets to make it throguh a season so the impetus to deal immediately them is lessened. And THAT is why the Yankees got him so quickly and so cheaply, and probably also why a lot of other teams did not even get involved in the bidding, including the Red Sox. Do you honestly think those borderline Yankee prospects represented a better offer than any other team could have made for a healthy starting pticher who was a former #2 overall pick and makes less than $3mill and has 2 full seasons of control?

    Your post above actually makes it sound like you do.

    Those multi-TJ pitchers do not have long shelf lives. Taillon is good, and he is a worthwhile gamble. But there is the reason he was available now and came so cheaply, and also why a lot of teams backed off...
    The one thing I find puzzling, is how Jacko is so high on Taillon (2 TJs) but so low on Sale (1 TJ).

    I'm high on both.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    The one thing I find puzzling, is how Jacko is so high on Taillon (2 TJs) but so low on Sale (1 TJ).

    I'm high on both.
    Why could you possibly find that puzzling? (Hint: It has to do with pinstripes.)

    If the Sox had been the team to acquire Taillon, he would be making long medically-based posts about how much of a risk it was...

  8. #38
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Why could you possibly find that puzzling? (Hint: It has to do with pinstripes.)

    If the Sox had been the team to acquire Taillon, he would be making long medically-based posts about how much of a risk it was...
    That is true. It should not be puzzling.
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  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    The one thing I find puzzling, is how Jacko is so high on Taillon (2 TJs) but so low on Sale (1 TJ).

    I'm high on both.
    Sale had a shoulder injury that sapped his power prior to TJS
    Hal sucks

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Sale had a shoulder injury that sapped his power prior to TJS
    His velocity barely dropped, his K rate rose, but you keep saying this.
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  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    His velocity barely dropped, his K rate rose, but you keep saying this.
    Let's be honest, his velocity was affected. He went from being able to throw easy cheese to needing to ramp it up to reach the same velo and it cost him his command. Very strong chance he comes back with low velo. Either way, he is still effective, but he isnt a 6+ WAR starter without the heat
    Hal sucks

  12. #42
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Let's be honest, his velocity was affected. He went from being able to throw easy cheese to needing to ramp it up to reach the same velo and it cost him his command. Very strong chance he comes back with low velo. Either way, he is still effective, but he isnt a 6+ WAR starter without the heat
    The velo charts just do not support your claim. His velo did dip from his previous 1-3 years but was the same as his earlier years when he was still Cy Young material.

    His K rate has been his highest the last 3 years.

    How was he K'ing people without "ramping it up?" (And, if he was K'ing people without ramping it up, maybe it proves he doesn't need top velo to be great.)

    Let's be honest, yes. These graphs don't lie:

    https://www.fangraphs.com/players/ch...FA&ymin=&ymax=
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Let's be honest, his velocity was affected. He went from being able to throw easy cheese to needing to ramp it up to reach the same velo and it cost him his command. Very strong chance he comes back with low velo. Either way, he is still effective, but he isnt a 6+ WAR starter without the heat
    Sale's velocity has been 93-95 mph most of his career. The two years he averaged below that range were 2012 and 2016, and he combined for 10 fWAR in those two seasons.

    So if you want to argue he is a 5 fWAR pitcher and not a 6 fWAR pitcher, I don't think it is going to crush us...

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Actually, they don't need Taillon to throw one pitch, this year, so I don't see them structuring their team around him.

    Yes, if one of these long shot prospects comes through, they could lose something, but the Yanks have a much stronger and deeper farm than us, so losing these 4 are hardly a blip on their screen.

    I can see your point, but I don't see much of a "risk" at all.

    I'd have given much more than what the Yanks gave up, and that might have been a "risk," so maybe that's why I'm viewing it this way.
    They might not need Taillon to throw a pitch. On the other hand, the rest of their staff behind Cole are far from guaranteed.

    That's cool if you see it as zero risk. I don't.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Kimmi is one of the last bastion of Sox homers who thinks the Sox have a chance in 21, so she’s projecting her hopes rather than real likelihood’s or what she actually knows is true.

    You cannot keep all your prospects. 2 were already on the 40 man and Smith could have needed to be added by the end of 21. And we dealt NONE of our top 14 prospects. Zero, zilch, nada. And we got a guy with ace stuff and ace upside who will leave Pitt and adopt the same philosophy that Cole did when he left Pitt. This kid is healthy now and under control for two seasons. I’m expecting huge things out of him
    As I posted before, this is a good get for the Yankees. But to post thing like this is a steal for Cashman is silly.

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