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Thread: Yanks acquire Jameson Taillon

  1. #91
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    None of the trades I mentioned would come close to "decimation." I'll be thrilled if these 4 combines even play 2 years in MLB, let alone at the level Taillon is.
    When DD decimated the farm, he didn't do it all in one trade either. And it was often pointed out that most of the guys he traded didn't amount to anything.

    The big thing is, DD did it when we were clearly in a window of contention. Now we're not.

    Doing this kind of trade to get back a guy who's gone after 2022 seems to be antithetical to what Bloom is trying to do right now.
    Last edited by Bellhorn04; 01-27-2021 at 08:25 PM.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

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  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    In other words, you still don't get the praise for Bloom, right?
    In fairness, Bloom deserves more time to succeed. But I can't see praising a guy who finished dead last in his first year on the job.

  3. #93
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Is there some survey results somewhere?
    Here's one piece on it.

    https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/01/24/ja...ankees-pirates
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgalehouse View Post
    In fairness, Bloom deserves more time to succeed. But I can't see praising a guy who finished dead last in his first year on the job.
    His first year on the job was a 60-game season in a pandemic after being given orders to trade Mookie Betts, and more if possible, and not to spend very much. Not only did we lose Betts, but as it turned out, we lost 4/5 of the previous year's rotation -Sale, Price, E-Rod and Porcello, for the whole season.

    He also had to replace Cora.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    His first year on the job was a 60-game season in a pandemic after being given orders to trade Mookie Betts, and more if possible, and not to spend very much. Not only did we lose Betts, but as it turned out, we lost 4/5 of the previous year's rotation -Sale, Price, E-Rod and Porcello, for the whole season.

    He also had to replace Cora.
    Legitimate excuses. But still nothing commendable about the results.

  6. #96
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    When DD decimated the farm, he didn't do it all in one trade either. And it was often pointed out that most of the guys he traded didn't amount to anything.

    The big thing is, DD did it when we were clearly in a window of contention. Now we're not.

    Doing this kind of trade to get back a guy who's gone after 2022 seems to be antithetical to what Bloom is trying to do right now.
    We can win it all in '22, or we can trade Taillon after he finished 4th in the AL Cy Young voting.
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgalehouse View Post
    I tend to be results oriented. The ultimate goal is winning. For a G.M. or most anyone. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. But sometimes when the pudding turns out terrible , some folks still say that the cook did a good job. That is true loyalty . Or true stubbornness .
    For most GMs, the ability to assemble a winning team is 100% dependent on the budget. If ownership says “no spending”, that’s when a GM has to be good...

  8. #98
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    We can win it all in '22, or we can trade Taillon after he finished 4th in the AL Cy Young voting.
    If you read that piece I posted, it graded the trade a B+ for the Yanks and a B for the Pirates.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  9. #99
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    If you read that piece I posted, it graded the trade a B+ for the Yanks and a B for the Pirates.
    I'm not sure what other offers were out there, if any, and if there were not many, then maybe his health issues are deeper than I imagined.

    I'm not expert on prospects, even our own, and I'm sure Ben likes something he sees in a few of the guys he got back.

    I have also said maybe my evaluation of Taillon is way too high. I do see pitchers like Kluber and Richards getting paid way more than Taillon, and certainly prospects traded have value, even if they are not highly ranked. Four prospects is a lot.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see how this pans out. Maybe Taillon is toast, and I'll eat my words. He does have 2 years to give some significant value.
    Maybe one or two of those four prospects amounts to something useful or even special.

    I'm not sure, if there is anything more to say. We all have our opinions, and yours and others who think this was a good deal for PIT all have merit.

    I rate the trade as A+ for Yanks and C- for PIT based on just about no knowledge of what else was on the table and what budget constraints Ben is under.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I'm not sure what other offers were out there, if any, and if there were not many, then maybe his health issues are deeper than I imagined.

    I'm not expert on prospects, even our own, and I'm sure Ben likes something he sees in a few of the guys he got back.

    I have also said maybe my evaluation of Taillon is way too high. I do see pitchers like Kluber and Richards getting paid way more than Taillon, and certainly prospects traded have value, even if they are not highly ranked. Four prospects is a lot.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see how this pans out. Maybe Taillon is toast, and I'll eat my words. He does have 2 years to give some significant value.
    Maybe one or two of those four prospects amounts to something useful or even special.

    I'm not sure, if there is anything more to say. We all have our opinions, and yours and others who think this was a good deal for PIT all have merit.

    I rate the trade as A+ for Yanks and C- for PIT based on just about no knowledge of what else was on the table and what budget constraints Ben is under.
    Most accounts I have seen seem to say Cherington did a good job in both the Taillon and Musgrove trades, despite not really raiding either team's farm system...

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Most accounts I have seen seem to say Cherington did a good job in both the Taillon and Musgrove trades, despite not really raiding either team's farm system...
    Maybe the trend is that good pitchers don't bring back top prospects, anymore.

    Maybe, I'm behind the times. (It wouldn't be the first time I discovered that about myself.)
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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Maybe the trend is that good pitchers don't bring back top prospects, anymore.
    It's not so much that as the combination of health issues and 2 years of control.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It's not so much that as the combination of health issues and 2 years of control.
    Two years of control is way more than the two months teams get with deadline trades and twice as much as many winter deals for 1 year-controlled pitchers.

    Other recent trades of good pitchers seems to be showing less returns than a few years ago.
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  14. #104
    There’s precedent with Taillon both on ex Pitt pitchers and post TJS pitchers. His two major big league “injuries” were testicular cancer and TJS. It’s not like he was begging out a month at a time for a hamstring or something else altogether.

    Two years of control is huge. If he’s one of the 95% that recover well from this procedure and if he takes to the new pitching approach, he’s got the goods to be just as good as Cole

    Kluber is entirely different. Same level effectiveness, different method of action. He’s a movement and command pitcher who doesn’t blow you away but he’s missed time with a shoulder problem. That concerns me more and makes him a higher risk for sure

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    There’s precedent with Taillon both on ex Pitt pitchers and post TJS pitchers. His two major big league “injuries” were testicular cancer and TJS. It’s not like he was begging out a month at a time for a hamstring or something else altogether.

    Two years of control is huge. If he’s one of the 95% that recover well from this procedure and if he takes to the new pitching approach, he’s got the goods to be just as good as Cole

    Kluber is entirely different. Same level effectiveness, different method of action. He’s a movement and command pitcher who doesn’t blow you away but he’s missed time with a shoulder problem. That concerns me more and makes him a higher risk for sure
    I agree 100%.

    I still think getting Taillon will be the best off season move any team makes.
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