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Thread: trade deadline

  1. #1246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    But maybe the reason for not getting a quality first baseman was the same as the reason for not getting a starting pitcher - the price.
    The price for Rizzo using Fangraphs rankings was Alcantara (FV 50) and Vizcaino (FV 45). Equivalent from the Sox might be Casas(50) and Houck (45)

    Other players could have been substituted for Houck, but you get the idea…

  2. #1247
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    The price for Rizzo using Fangraphs rankings was Alcantara (FV 50) and Vizcaino (FV 45). Equivalent from the Sox might be Casas(50) and Houck (45)

    Other players could have been substituted for Houck, but you get the idea…
    Absurd. Houck has the same value of Vizcaino? Alcantara has the same value as Casas? I don't buy it.

    Trade Casas and Houck for two months of Rizzo. LOL.
    Last edited by Fan_since_Boggs; 07-31-2021 at 06:24 PM.

  3. #1248
    Other teams paid the price necessary to fill their needs, so why give Bloom the excuse of “the price”?
    A question for Clint Eastwood: would you trade Casas and Bello for Jose Berrios? Let's say the Twins accepted that deal, you would want the Red Sox to do it?

    For me, that price is too high and the price the Dodgers paid in the Max Sherzier deal was even higher.

    I guess the Red Sox could have tried to acquire a lower level pitcher like Rich Hill. The Red Sox could have gone hard after Kyle Gibson, although it sounds like he didn't come cheap either.

    As I saw it, either the price was too high OR the SP wasn't good enough. There were only a couple of available starting pitchers on the trade market better than E-Rod and, again, the price was sky high for those guys.

    Of course, the situation at 1b was completely different. Starting 1b are easier to acquire and yet the Red Sox didn't trade for one even though it is a desperate need.
    Last edited by Fan_since_Boggs; 07-31-2021 at 06:28 PM.

  4. #1249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    The truth is, I like to speculate, try to solve riddles, figure out motives et cetera.

    Maybe Bloom was given a strict mandate on how much salary to take on. Or maybe he was too conservative. There are a lot of possible explanations. Maybe none that will satisfy us as fans.
    Maybe none that will satisfy the final standings. I am being repetitive, but when you are in first place 100 games into the season with one of the best records in baseball, that is the time to spend your chips/money.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Chaim, you are in the big leagues now. Drawing 10,000 fans a game is not going to cut it, and people don’t buy tickets to Fenway to talk about the Farm

    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    "Relief pitchers are a crapshoot." No, the truth is "Crapshoot pitchers are relievers."

  5. #1250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_since_Boggs View Post
    A question for Clint Eastwood: would you trade Casas and Bello for Jose Berrios? Let's say the Twins accepted that deal, you would want the Red Sox to do it?

    For me, that price is too high and the price the Dodgers paid in the Max Sherzier deal was even higher.

    I guess the Red Sox could have tried to acquire a lower level pitcher like Rich Hill. The Red Sox could have gone hard after Kyle Gibson, although it sounds like he didn't come cheap either.

    As I saw it, either the price was too high OR the SP wasn't good enough. There were only a couple of available starting pitchers on the trade market better than E-Rod and, again, the price was sky high for those guys.

    Of course, the situation at 1b was completely different. Starting 1b are easier to acquire and yet the Red Sox didn't trade for one even though it is a desperate need.
    If I answer that I would not make that trade, it is specious reasoning to think that would absolve Bloom for not getting what this team needs down the stretch. And maybe I would have done the deal to get Scherzer. After all, it is Scherzer, and I would feel pretty good going into the post season with Scherzer and Sale at the top of the rotation.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Chaim, you are in the big leagues now. Drawing 10,000 fans a game is not going to cut it, and people don’t buy tickets to Fenway to talk about the Farm

    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    "Relief pitchers are a crapshoot." No, the truth is "Crapshoot pitchers are relievers."

  6. #1251
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    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    If I answer that I would not make that trade, it is specious reasoning to think that would absolve Bloom for not getting what this team needs down the stretch. And maybe I would have done the deal to get Scherzer. After all, it is Scherzer, and I would feel pretty good going into the post season with Scherzer and Sale at the top of the rotation.
    We just traded our 1st round pick, Michael Chavis for ham sandwich. Minor leaguers exist to serve the major league team.
    I write fictional stories in my spare time. So don't fact check me. Better?

  7. #1252
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick View Post
    we just traded our 1st round pick, michael chavis for ham sandwich. Minor leaguers exist to serve the major league team.
    bingo!
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Chaim, you are in the big leagues now. Drawing 10,000 fans a game is not going to cut it, and people don’t buy tickets to Fenway to talk about the Farm

    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    "Relief pitchers are a crapshoot." No, the truth is "Crapshoot pitchers are relievers."

  8. #1253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    But maybe the reason for not getting a quality first baseman was the same as the reason for not getting a starting pitcher - the price.
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    If I answer that I would not make that trade, it is specious reasoning to think that would absolve Bloom for not getting what this team needs down the stretch. And maybe I would have done the deal to get Scherzer. After all, it is Scherzer, and I would feel pretty good going into the post season with Scherzer and Sale at the top of the rotation.
    Done what deal to get Scherzer? The Sox didn’t have the prospects to compete with the ones the Dodgers gave up.

  9. #1254
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Done what deal to get Scherzer? The Sox didn’t have the prospects to compete with the ones the Dodgers gave up.
    Do we know what he offered? Maybe if he offered more than he did, he would have landed him. Maybe he could have taken salary. We don’t know if he could have gotten him. It’s pure apologist speculation by you. All we know is that the first place team made no significant moves to address the team needs. The 3 teams chasing the Red Sox made several significant moves. That’s all that we know. But continue with your excuses and be prepared to continue with those excuses if this team collapses and doesn’t make the post season.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Chaim, you are in the big leagues now. Drawing 10,000 fans a game is not going to cut it, and people don’t buy tickets to Fenway to talk about the Farm

    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    "Relief pitchers are a crapshoot." No, the truth is "Crapshoot pitchers are relievers."

  10. #1255
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    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Do we know what he offered? Maybe if he offered more than he did, he would have landed him. Maybe he could have taken salary. We don’t know if he could have gotten him. It’s pure apologist speculation by you. All we know is that the first place team made no significant moves to address the team needs. The 3 teams chasing the Red Sox made several significant moves. That’s all that we know. But continue with your excuses and be prepared to continue with those excuses if this team collapses and doesn’t make the post season.

    What we know is Scherzer was traded for anything better than the Sox had. That’s a fact.

    It’s like if Bloom was at an auction and only had $100. And everything he bid on went for $200. And then you got mad at him for not spending his $100.

    Now what Bloom should have done is ignored Scherzer and Berrios and focused on other SP. Even Kyle Gibson netted a prospect (BA#27 Spencer Howard) better anyone in the Sox system on several scales.

    Not sure who you think Bloom was supposed to deal to get Scherzer, considering he was traded in a deal that sent back two highly ranked prospects in Keibert Ruiz and Josiah Gray, both of whom already reached MLB. Maybe if Jeter Downs wasn’t flopping this year, Bloom would have had better chips. Maybe if Mata and Ward didn’t miss the season with TJ. No idea if he would have sent them, but not having those three is a big, big deal.

    Heck I thought the main reason he acquired Schwarber was to make Duran available. I have no idea if it’s true, but it makes more sense than getting him to play 1b.

    Bloom got outbid. So did AJ Preller, whom everyone said had a deal in place for Scherzer and had even better prospects to deal.

    No one is saying Bloom had a good deadline. I’m saying he got outbid by teams who had better prospects than Bloom had. And I am right that even if Bloom put all his good prospects on the table at once, he still falls short of what Washington and Minnesota got in their deals…

  11. #1256
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    Schwarber was significant.

    Our farm was hardly touched.

    I feel much better about 2022, and still love our chances of winning the division or at worst, winning a WC slot.

    The Dodgers, Yanks and others overpaid. It’s pretty certain we’d have had to do the same or more to land any of the top players. Let’s save the overpays for this winter’s free agents.
    Sox 4 Ever

  12. #1257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan_since_Boggs View Post
    A question for Clint Eastwood: would you trade Casas and Bello for Jose Berrios? Let's say the Twins accepted that deal, you would want the Red Sox to do it?
    Yes!! All day. But Minnesota got BA#16 Austin Martin and BA#69 Simeon Woods-Richardson for him. BA#47 and an unranked guy is clearly not enough.

    For me, that price is too high and the price the Dodgers paid in the Max Sherzier deal was even higher.
    It’s not.

    I guess the Red Sox could have tried to acquire a lower level pitcher like Rich Hill. The Red Sox could have gone hard after Kyle Gibson, although it sounds like he didn't come cheap either.
    Even Gibson returned Spencer Howard (BA#27)

    Bloom got outspent by people with better prospects

  13. #1258
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Yes!! All day. But Minnesota got BA#16 Austin Martin and BA#69 Simeon Woods-Richardson for him. BA#47 and an unranked guy is clearly not enough.



    It’s not.



    Even Gibson returned Spencer Howard (BA#27)

    Bloom got outspent by people with better prospects
    And if he tried to wow them with quantity, we have emptied the farm just months after not learning the lesson of 2020.

    Plus, we are not sure even quantity would have been enough.
    Sox 4 Ever

  14. #1259
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    What we know is Scherzer was traded for anything better than the Sox had. That’s a fact.

    It’s like if Bloom was at an auction and only had $100. And everything he bid on went for $200. And then you got mad at him for not spending his $100.

    Now what Bloom should have done is ignored Scherzer and Berrios and focused on other SP. Even Kyle Gibson netted a prospect (BA#27 Spencer Howard) better anyone in the Sox system on several scales.

    Not sure who you think Bloom was supposed to deal to get Scherzer, considering he was traded in a deal that sent back two highly ranked prospects in Keibert Ruiz and Josiah Gray, both of whom already reached MLB. Maybe if Jeter Downs wasn’t flopping this year, Bloom would have had better chips. Maybe if Mata and Ward didn’t miss the season with TJ. No idea if he would have sent them, but not having those three is a big, big deal.

    Heck I thought the main reason he acquired Schwarber was to make Duran available. I have no idea if it’s true, but it makes more sense than getting him to play 1b.

    Bloom got outbid. So did AJ Preller, whom everyone said had a deal in place for Scherzer and had even better prospects to deal.

    No one is saying Bloom had a good deadline. I’m saying he got outbid by teams who had better prospects than Bloom had. And I am right that even if Bloom put all his good prospects on the table at once, he still falls short of what Washington and Minnesota got in their deals…
    And he didn’t have the chips or the dough to land any starting pitchers? What about first baseman? Not having the chips to land Scherzer is one thing, but not having the chips to land any decent starting pitcher is something I can’t buy into. You completely foreclose the possibility that Bloom was simply not willing to spend the chips to get a starting pitcher or first baseman.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Chaim, you are in the big leagues now. Drawing 10,000 fans a game is not going to cut it, and people don’t buy tickets to Fenway to talk about the Farm

    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    "Relief pitchers are a crapshoot." No, the truth is "Crapshoot pitchers are relievers."

  15. #1260
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    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    And he didn’t have the chips or the dough to land any starting pitchers? What about first baseman? Not having the chips to land Scherzer is one thing, but not having the chips to land any decent starting pitcher is something I can’t buy into. You completely foreclose the possibility that Bloom was simply not willing to spend the chips to get a starting pitcher or first baseman.

    I said he went after the wrong pitchers 3 times. Now 4…

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