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Thread: just wondering

  1. #16
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    IMHO Sale and Eovaldi were never the issue with keeping Betts. Their deals weren't signed until they gave up on Betts.

    The more I think of it, the more I think Henry and Werner were really pissed about Mookie's stance (the 420 million counter offer plus earlier extension rejections) and closed the books on him.
    They should have countered with 69 million and see if it got a chuckle out of Mookie. Then they could have sat down like adults and agreed on 350.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  2. #17
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It was a small sample but a decent sample. 2020 of course was a weird year all around. His pro-rated salary was a little over 6 million.

    Bottom line, he's had one bad season, 2019, on this contract.
    Agreed, but would you call his 2020 season "special?"
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  3. #18
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    IMHO Sale and Eovaldi were never the issue with keeping Betts. Their deals weren't signed until they gave up on Betts.

    The more I think of it, the more I think Henry and Werner were really pissed about Mookie's stance (the 420 million counter offer plus earlier extension rejections) and closed the books on him.
    I still think a counter offer would have made for better optics.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  4. #19
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I still think a counter offer would have made for better optics.
    It's just bad negotiating.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    IMHO Sale and Eovaldi were never the issue with keeping Betts. Their deals weren't signed until they gave up on Betts.

    The more I think of it, the more I think Henry and Werner were really pissed about Mookie's stance (the 420 million counter offer plus earlier extension rejections) and closed the books on him.
    There’s a lot of conjecture being passed off as fact here. Do we really know when they “gave up” on Betts?

  6. #21
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    It's just bad negotiating.
    Even if they knew they'd never come to an agreement, why not make one last offer?

    Same with Lester. (With Lester, the offer they ended up making after he became a FA might have been enough to get an extension. It makes me think they knew this and never wanted him even at their final off price.)
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  7. #22
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Agreed, but would you call his 2020 season "special?"
    No, but that's not really the point. It was a decent performance in an f'd-up season. I'd call it more of a wash than anything.
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  8. #23
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    There’s a lot of conjecture being passed off as fact here. Do we really know when they “gave up” on Betts?
    C'mon man, you've got better reading comprehension than that. "IMHO" and "I think" denote opinion, not fact.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  9. #24
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    No, but that's not really the point. It was a decent performance in an f'd-up season. I'd call it more of a wash than anything.
    Well, I said he wasn't "special" in his first 2 seasons of the contract, and you objected to using that term.

    Saying it wasn't special is not saying it was anything worse than a "wash" or even better than a wash.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  10. #25
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Well, I said he wasn't "special" in his first 2 seasons of the contract, and you objected to using that term.

    Saying it wasn't special is not saying it was anything worse than a "wash" or even better than a wash.
    Come on.

    2019 sucked for Eovaldi.
    2020 was fine.

    Lumping them together is useless.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  11. #26
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Even if they knew they'd never come to an agreement, why not make one last offer?

    Same with Lester. (With Lester, the offer they ended up making after he became a FA might have been enough to get an extension. It makes me think they knew this and never wanted him even at their final off price.)
    They didn't feel the need to make a second offer because they knew enough of these little piggies would just make excuses for the ownership and just blame the greedy player anyway. No reason for PR! Fans have already bought the jersey!
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  12. #27
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Come on.

    2019 sucked for Eovaldi.
    2020 was fine.

    Lumping them together is useless.
    You seem to think "nothing special" means not fine.

    It does not.

    I asked if you thought 2020 was special and you said that's missing the point. The point was about 2020 being "special" or not.

    Nobody was looking at 2020 and saying it made the signing worth it.

    He pitched well in 2020 but nothing special. That's all I meant.

    I'm glad we signed him, now- after 2021 and 2020 did not hurt the position, either.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  13. #28
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    They didn't feel the need to make a second offer because they knew enough of these little piggies would just make excuses for the ownership and just blame the greedy player anyway. No reason for PR! Fans have already bought the jersey!
    Obviously many fans were upset about losing Betts. I happen to think it might have been more understandable to many fans, had a reasonable second offer been made and made public.

    I don't care what their reasoning was for not doing so, but IMO, they should have done it. They should have learned from Lester, where the case was a little different due to Lester hinting he'd take a "team discount."

    Betts never hinted at that.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  14. #29
    Legend Nick's Avatar
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    I don't miss Betts and his salary one bit.....don't let the door hit you in the ass is my stance to all that leave us.
    I write fictional stories in my spare time. So don't fact check me. Better?

  15. #30
    I don't fault any player for leaving Boston for more money elsewhere. Why shouldn't they ?
    Old school is good school.

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