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Thread: 9/29 SOX @ O's 7:05PM

  1. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Sale never hit 100 until 2018, and even then, it wasn't all that often. I wonder if throwing so much harder in 2018 was what caused the need for TJS.

    Sale was a great pitcher from 204 to 2017. In those years, he averaged about 91-96 with 2017 being more like 94-97. His velocity, so far this year is very close to 2014-2017. One might expect it can gain some more by next season.


    See the charts for yourself.. .

    https://www.fangraphs.com/players/ch...FA&ymin=&ymax=
    In the seasons before Sale's TJS, Sale had a habit of wearing down in early to mid-September.
    Last edited by SPLENDIDSPLINTER; 09-30-2021 at 10:39 AM.

  2. #227
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    I'm still not sure exactly what command is.
    Command is being able to locate a pitch. Control is being able to throw that pitch for strikes.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  3. #228
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Command is being able to locate a pitch. Control is being able to throw that pitch for strikes.
    A rather arbitrary distinction LOL
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  4. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    A rather arbitrary distinction LOL
    I believe 'command' and/or 'control' is the ability to hit the catcher's target more times than not.
    Last edited by SPLENDIDSPLINTER; 09-30-2021 at 11:12 AM.

  5. #230
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    A rather arbitrary distinction LOL
    Hey, I didn't come up with that stupid terminology. I don't know why they made it intentionally confusing.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  6. #231
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPLENDIDSPLINTER View Post
    I believe 'command' and/or 'control' is the ability to hit the catcher's target more times than not.
    No. Control is just throwing it for strikes regardless of where the catcher sets up.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  7. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    No. Control is just throwing it for strikes regardless of where the catcher sets up.

    That makes sense. Then 'command' would be throwing strikes w/o employing the middle of the plate. I guess 'command' would also include throwing inside and making the batter uncomfortable.

  8. #233
    That's a classic example of a distinction without a difference. Some people can throw a baseball exactly where they want; others can't; others can sometimes; others get lucky; others ...
    "Fans have become more entitled than anything. So they're starting to question our motives for the game, or how we approach the game. The ones that do question -- like who are you? Just shut up and watch the game tonight." --Kevin Durant on players' lack of effort in regular season games.

  9. #234
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jad View Post
    That's a classic example of a distinction without a difference. Some people can throw a baseball exactly where they want; others can't; others can sometimes; others get lucky; others ...
    Think of it like a tiered system:
    1. No control over the pitch, can't consistently throw it for strikes
    2. Control over the pitch, can throw it for strikes
    3. Command over the pitch, can pinpoint the pitch location
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  10. #235
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPLENDIDSPLINTER View Post
    In the seasons before Sale's TJS, Sale had a habit of wearing down in early to mid-September.
    Maybe a little...

    2017: 2.90 ERA
    3.39 last 9 starts (3.00 last 6 starts)

    2016: 3.39 ERA
    3.41 last 9 starts

    2015: 2.17 ERA
    2.33 last 9 starts

    2014: 3.07 ERA
    3.36 last 9 starts (3.00 last 6 starts)

    2013: 3.41 ERA
    3.24 last 9 starts

    In 2018, he missed some time in August.
    2.11 ERA all season
    2.65 in AUG & SEP (5 starts) 30Ks and 1 BB in 17 IP!

    Sox 4 Ever

  11. #236
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Maybe a little...

    2017: 2.90 ERA
    3.39 last 9 starts (3.00 last 6 starts)

    2016: 3.39 ERA
    3.41 last 9 starts

    2015: 2.17 ERA
    2.33 last 9 starts

    2014: 3.07 ERA
    3.36 last 9 starts (3.00 last 6 starts)

    2013: 3.41 ERA
    3.24 last 9 starts

    In 2018, he missed some time in August.
    2.11 ERA all season
    2.65 in AUG & SEP (5 starts) 30Ks and 1 BB in 17 IP!

    September is his worst month per his career splits. It's just that his worst month was still pretty damn good.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  12. #237
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    September is his worst month per his career splits. It's just that his worst month was still pretty damn good.
    Yes, and these numbers that include part of August show a general drop off, but not by a whole lot, and yes, still impressive numbers.

    One encouraging thing that jacko never responded to is is rants on Sale being toast was the 30 Ks and 1 BB in Sale's last 17 innings of 2018- after the injury and with severely reduced velocity.

    It's my position that Sale can and will be an excellent pitcher, even if his velo does not return, but with most TJS pitchers, it does return.

    I'm hopeful next year is a great one for Sale.
    Sox 4 Ever

  13. #238
    Deity vegasbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Think of it like a tiered system:
    1. No control over the pitch, can't consistently throw it for strikes
    2. Control over the pitch, can throw it for strikes
    3. Command over the pitch, can pinpoint the pitch location
    As examples to better comprehend: #1 describes the back end of the bullpen
    # 2 describes Sale and Eovaldi
    #3 describes no one who has graduated from the Sox MiLB system in the last 20 years

  14. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Think of it like a tiered system:
    1. No control over the pitch, can't consistently throw it for strikes
    2. Control over the pitch, can throw it for strikes
    3. Command over the pitch, can pinpoint the pitch location
    OK. Just a matter of degree? (thus you can't have command without control). (Or as in Real Inspector Hound, when the critic says: "It has elan, but not éclat!)
    "Fans have become more entitled than anything. So they're starting to question our motives for the game, or how we approach the game. The ones that do question -- like who are you? Just shut up and watch the game tonight." --Kevin Durant on players' lack of effort in regular season games.

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