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Thread: The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

  1. #2071
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    My recollection was Sox over reacted to coming in second place to the White Sox in Jose Abreu sweepstake. I read somewhere Sox was NOT going to come in second place for two years in a row. Rest is history.

    Also we are on the hook for a portion of last year of Price's contract, $16M. Of course it has to count against our luxury tax. Otherwise we'd trade away bad contracts to get it off our books. Surprised we're discussing that...

    I imagine the fact that JBJ couldn’t hit water if he fell out of a boat back then also figured into it. It was also about that time the Sox moved Betts to the outfield, originally in center. So was it about “not losing out”? Or about finding a CF? Or maybe both?

  2. #2072
    Sox wasted 72 million on Rusney Castillo when, for a few million less the year before, they could have signed Jose Abreu. A big mistake by Ben Cherrington and staff.

  3. #2073
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedballgame View Post
    Sox wasted 72 million on Rusney Castillo when, for a few million less the year before, they could have signed Jose Abreu. A big mistake by Ben Cherrington and staff.
    And 1b has been kind of a shitshow for the Sox ever since trading AGon. Having Abreu there would have solved a big hole for the org.
    C'mon, do something...

  4. #2074
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    It's all water under the Tobin. This organization has made its share of mistakes, but 4 rings really takes the sting out of it...
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  5. #2075
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It's all water under the Tobin. This organization has made its share of mistakes, but 4 rings really takes the sting out of it...
    I agree with that.

  6. #2076
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It's all water under the Tobin. This organization has made its share of mistakes, but 4 rings really takes the sting out of it...
    Yep....Sox 4 Yankees 1
    Not over till the fat lady sings.

  7. #2077
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It's all water under the Tobin. This organization has made its share of mistakes, but 4 rings really takes the sting out of it...
    Only 1 of those since the Castillo blunder.
    C'mon, do something...

  8. #2078
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Only 1 of those since the Castillo blunder.
    That's Fellowship of the Miserable stuff, though LOL
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  9. #2079
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    That's Fellowship of the Miserable stuff, though LOL
    Curse of the Castillo, the Rusney's Paw if you will...
    C'mon, do something...

  10. #2080
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    And 1b has been kind of a shitshow for the Sox ever since trading AGon. Having Abreu there would have solved a big hole for the org.
    Maybe since Napoli (2013 version, which was better than the 2012 version of AGon). Also, HRam did well in 2016, and 2018 with Moreland & Pearce was good. I guess we don't count 2020.

    Red Sox 1B production since 2011:
    2011 .329 28 118 (.944 OPS/136 OPS+) AGon
    2012 .289 22 96 (.795/104) AGon (Loney)
    2013 .262 26 106 (.841/117) Napoli (Carp)
    2014 .222 16 65 (.692/85) Napoli (Craig/Carp)
    2015 .226 29 82 (.727/84) Napoli/Shaw
    2016 .269 29 112 (.807/104) HRam (Shaw)
    2017 .240 25 80 (.749/80) Moreland (HRam/Shaw)
    2018 .267 23 109 (.794/106) Moreland/Pearce (HRam)
    2019 .244 29 99 (.745/86) Moreland/Chavis (Pearce/Travis)
    2020 .280 18 44 (.942/137) Dalbec/Chavis/Moreland
    2021 .239 30 97 (.777/90) Dalbec (Marwin/Schwarber/Santana)

    Sox 4 Ever

  11. #2081
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Maybe since Napoli (2013 version, which was better than the 2012 version of AGon). Also, HRam did well in 2016, and 2018 with Moreland & Pearce was good. I guess we don't count 2020.

    Red Sox 1B production since 2011:
    2011 .329 28 118 (.944 OPS/136 OPS+) AGon
    2012 .289 22 96 (.795/104) AGon (Loney)
    2013 .262 26 106 (.841/117) Napoli (Carp)
    2014 .222 16 65 (.692/85) Napoli (Craig/Carp)
    2015 .226 29 82 (.727/84) Napoli/Shaw
    2016 .269 29 112 (.807/104) HRam (Shaw)
    2017 .240 25 80 (.749/80) Moreland (HRam/Shaw)
    2018 .267 23 109 (.794/106) Moreland/Pearce (HRam)
    2019 .244 29 99 (.745/86) Moreland/Chavis (Pearce/Travis)
    2020 .280 18 44 (.942/137) Dalbec/Chavis/Moreland
    2021 .239 30 97 (.777/90) Dalbec (Marwin/Schwarber/Santana)

    WRC+
    2011 3rd
    2012 20th
    2013 7th
    2014 25th
    2015 22nd
    2016 15th
    2017 25th
    2018 14th
    2019 26th
    2020 8th
    2021 20th

    1b has been so much of a shitshow that you have to defend 2016 and 2018 as plus years when they were clearly middle of the road. Aside from Napoli being in beast mode at the start of 2013 and Dalbec being a human volcano at the end of 2020, there hasn't been much to talk about positively for an important offensive cog.
    C'mon, do something...

  12. #2082
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    WRC+
    2011 3rd
    2012 20th
    2013 7th
    2014 25th
    2015 22nd
    2016 15th
    2017 25th
    2018 14th
    2019 26th
    2020 8th
    2021 20th

    1b has been so much of a shitshow that you have to defend 2016 and 2018 as plus years when they were clearly middle of the road. Aside from Napoli being in beast mode at the start of 2013 and Dalbec being a human volcano at the end of 2020, there hasn't been much to talk about positively for an important offensive cog.
    I did not "defend" 2016 or 2018. You assume a lot, as always.

    Yes, AGon in 2011 was awesome, and we haven't had a full season like that since. I'm not disagreeing with you.

    The numbers did point out AGon's 2012 version was close to the same or even worse than some who came after, including Napoli in 2013 only, HRam in 2016 only, and Moreland in 2018 only. I specifically said I guess Dalbec's 2020 does not count.

    Yes, their seasons were pretty much "middle of the road," except for maybe Napoli's 2013 season, but so was AGon's last season with the Sox. When you say "since AGon" that should count 2012, too.

    When combining all seasons with the Sox, AGon beats out napoli, HRam and Moreland, so in that sense, he was clearly the best we've had in a decade. It's not even close:

    wRC+ since 2011:
    138 AGon
    116 Napoli
    115 Dalbec
    108 Moreland
    103 HRam (some in LF)
    99 Shaw
    80 Chavis

    OPS
    .895 AGon
    .819 Dalbec
    .803 Moreland
    .785 Napoli

    I was just providing facts and looking at individual seasons. It might not be how you were making your judgment or want others to view it, but it's a valid way at looking at our 1Bmen over the years.

    I know I can be hypercritical, at times, but you take it to a very high level.

    Sox 4 Ever

  13. #2083
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I did not "defend" 2016 or 2018. You assume a lot, as always.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    HRam did well in 2016, and 2018 with Moreland & Pearce was good.
    Ok.
    C'mon, do something...

  14. #2084
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Ok.
    Saying they did well or good is not saying they were better than AGon, although the 2012 AGon was not much better.

    I was not "defending" them as being better than AGon. I merely pointed out those individual seasons compared to the 2012 AGon season.

    You assume more than what is written- a common thing for you.
    Sox 4 Ever

  15. #2085
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    Royals sign Colten Brewer to MiLB deal.
    C'mon, do something...

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