Register now to remove this ad

Page 83 of 83 FirstFirst ... 3373818283
Results 1,231 to 1,244 of 1244

Thread: The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

  1. #1231
    Deity
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    26,619
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    BT W I am not the one saying that. It’s not every pitcher either
    I’m 100% being on board with keeping both Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen.

    I can see the arguments. Starters are hopefully good for 150 IP, but also only impact maybe 28-32 games. As relievers, they are only good for maybe 70-80 IP, but also can impact 60-80 games…

  2. #1232
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Iím 100% being on board with keeping both Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen.

    I can see the arguments. Starters are hopefully good for 150 IP, but also only impact maybe 28-32 games. As relievers, they are only good for maybe 70-80 IP, but also can impact 60-80 gamesÖ
    Good point, and as Bell alluded to, ever-increasing multi-inning roles of relievers have increased their value, while also prompting a rule-adjustment need for assigning victories to pitchers.

    I would also add, however, that workhorse starters (currently defined as "going five" or "two times through the order", whichever comes first) provide another asset that can't be overlooked or quantified: eating innings, which gives some of the almost-daily bullpen guys a day of R & R -- recovery and reset. Managers, coaches and players talk about it all the time; in that sense, a pitcher who starts 30 games can positively impact around 45 games... if half his starts "go long," and refreshed relievers are better the next game after a day off.

  3. #1233
    Deity
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    26,619
    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    Good point, and as Bell alluded to, ever-increasing multi-inning roles of relievers have increased their value, while also prompting a rule-adjustment need for assigning victories to pitchers.

    I would also add, however, that workhorse starters (currently defined as "going five" or "two times through the order", whichever comes first) provide another asset that can't be overlooked or quantified: eating innings, which gives some of the almost-daily bullpen guys a day of R & R -- recovery and reset. Managers, coaches and players talk about it all the time; in that sense, a pitcher who starts 30 games can positively impact around 45 games... if half his starts "go long," and refreshed relievers are better the next game after a day off.

    Absolutely true. Eating innings is essential. Of course, we really don’t know if Houck or Whitlock are capable of eating very many. They might be Diet Relievers…

  4. #1234
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    50,614
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Iím 100% being on board with keeping both Houck and Whitlock in the bullpen.

    I can see the arguments. Starters are hopefully good for 150 IP, but also only impact maybe 28-32 games. As relievers, they are only good for maybe 70-80 IP, but also can impact 60-80 gamesÖ
    Also, maybe Houck and Whitlock can each give us 90-125 IP, next year.
    Sox 4 Ever

  5. #1235
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    50,614
    Best numbers 3rd time through.

    .673 Perez
    .780 Eovaldi
    .819 Sale (26 PA)
    .924 Richards
    1.011 Pivetta
    1.016 ERod
    1.489 Houck (18 PA)

    2020 (10+ PAs)
    .571 Perez
    1.200 Eovaldi
    Sox 4 Ever

  6. #1236
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    33,965
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Also, maybe Houck and Whitlock can each give us 90-125 IP, next year.
    Hypothetical question for you and notin: if you knew Whitlock could deliver 150 quality innings next year as a starter, would you still keep him in the bullpen?
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  7. #1237
    Deity
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    26,619
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Hypothetical question for you and notin: if you knew Whitlock could deliver 150 quality innings next year as a starter, would you still keep him in the bullpen?

    No. If I knew it based on something (history?) then I might use him as a starter because it’s usually easier to replace relievers than it is to replace starters.

    But right now my opinion is Houck and Whitlock work will in the bullpen. It’s not broken. Why fix it? Getting new starters might put question marks on the rotation, but moving Houck and/or Whitlock there and replacing both creates more question marks.

  8. #1238
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I agree, and to some extent, starters are more known commodities.

    We lost Ottavino, so I think keeping Houck & Whitlock in the pen makes a lot of sense.
    Where did you read that we lost Ottavino? I keep track of https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...rades-analysis and it's not there.

  9. #1239
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    50,614
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Hypothetical question for you and notin: if you knew Whitlock could deliver 150 quality innings next year as a starter, would you still keep him in the bullpen?
    No.

    I’m about 60-40 on Whitlock staying in the pen and 85-15 on Houck.

    Of course, if we only add one meh sp’er then those numbers will move.
    Last edited by moonslav59; Yesterday at 01:01 PM.
    Sox 4 Ever

  10. #1240
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    50,614
    Quote Originally Posted by kenmeister View Post
    Where did you read that we lost Ottavino? I keep track of https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...rades-analysis and it's not there.
    Heís a FA, so I count him as off the roster, unless we replace him with him. Lol!
    Sox 4 Ever

  11. #1241
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    50,614
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    No. If I knew it based on something (history?) then I might use him as a starter because itís usually easier to replace relievers than it is to replace starters.

    But right now my opinion is Houck and Whitlock work will in the bullpen. Itís not broken. Why fix it? Getting new starters might put question marks on the rotation, but moving Houck and/or Whitlock there and replacing both creates more question marks.
    The way pens are changing, having two guys that can go 2-3 innings every 2-4 days gives us a huge advantage over many teams. Maybe both can give us many more innings, next year from the pen.
    Sox 4 Ever

  12. #1242
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    We're seeing changes in how pitchers are used, though. Starters throwing fewer innings and relievers more. So that triple innings thing is going down.

    Whitlock pitched 73.1 innings in 2021.

    Top 3 starters by IP

    Eovaldi 182.1 = 2.49 times as many
    E-Rod 157.2 = 2.15
    Pivetta 155.0 = 2.11
    Starters pitch more innings, but relievers appear in , and effect the outcome of , many more games. And for late relievers , it is usually in close games. The trend seems to be bigger staffs , more rest days and quicker hooks for starters . And more reliance on the bullpen.
    Old school is good school.

  13. #1243
    Deity
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    26,619
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    No.

    I’m about 60-40 on Whitlock staying in the pen and 85-15 on Houck.

    Of course, if we only add one meh sp’er then those numbers will move.
    Oh I am 100% behind keeping him in the bullpen. But it’s not going to happen…

  14. #1244
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    50,614
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Oh I am 100% behind keeping him in the bullpen. But it’s not going to happen…
    If we traded for Montas, I’d be 100%.

    As our roster is right now, we’d have to move one to the rotation to have any chance at a ring.
    Last edited by moonslav59; Yesterday at 04:00 PM.
    Sox 4 Ever

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •