2022 Bullpen Thread

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

I like how you waited to answer.

The Whitlock case shows the Yanks can misjudge young talented pitchers. Plus, as jacko will tell you, they have som many great young arms, they can't protect them all.

Wasn’t German acquired around the same time as Whitlock? Seems kind of strange that the Yankees would have someone no good to trade and yet have more talented guys not protected on the 40.

German is a relief only profile, has flashed plus stuff this year, not getting my hopes up, but certainly you’d never see me talking down a prospect after one bad outing on the majors. I’m not that shallow.

[a700hitter]

Wasn’t German acquired around the same time as Whitlock? Seems kind of strange that the Yankees would have someone no good to trade and yet have more talented guys not protected on the 40.

German is a relief only profile, has flashed plus stuff this year, not getting my hopes up, but certainly you’d never see me talking down a prospect after one bad outing on the majors. I’m not that shallow.

No one would describe you as shallow.

[moonslav59]

Wasn’t German acquired around the same time as Whitlock? Seems kind of strange that the Yankees would have someone no good to trade and yet have more talented guys not protected on the 40.

Yes, it was the same winter.

DEC 2020 to Jan 2021
Ottavino & German (Trade)
Whitlock (Rule 5)
Ort & T Reed (Minor League Rule 5)

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

No one would describe you as shallow.

No one who matters at least.

[Bellhorn04]

German had an inauspicious debut. It can only get better from here.

"Inauspicious" - exactly the word I was going to use. Says it all, but in a dignified fashion.

[notin]

"Inauspicious" - exactly the word I was going to use. Says it all, but in a dignified fashion.

The box score looked horrible, but he was actually hitting 97-98 regularly and at least keeping it around the zone. The arm has life, and not every debut is representative.

The last real flamethrower like this the Sox brought up was Darwinzon Hernandez, and German certainly appeared to have better control than him…

[a700hitter]

No one who matters at least.

That’s my exact sentiment.

[dgalehouse]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

[A Red Sox fan named Hugh]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

You're not wrong, but it's also one of the trickiest things to accomplish.

[moonslav59]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

Our pen has certainly been one of many weak points on the team.

I do question the use of ERA, especially for RP'ers, since they often enter innings with 1-2 outs already and the full amount of runs allowed my be lessened by walk off hits.

In other areas, our pen still looks bad, buy not always bottom 5.

9th in IP, which hints at forced overuse- shifting some of "the blame" to the starters or manager

21st in fWAR at 2.7
21st WHIP at 1.35
23rd xFIP at 4.55 (20th in FIP)
26th in ERA- at 110

Our SP'ers are...

21st in IP.

18th in FWAR at 8.8
18th xFIP at 4.09
21st in ERA- at 109 (about the same as the pen)
24th in WHIP at 1.34 (about the same as the pen)

The pen deserves criticism, but you seem to focus only on them, when the starters forced more IP on them, and their injuries forced Houck and Whitlock to start some games and a few "pen games," along the way, as well.

[dgalehouse]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

Here is the list.
Team ERA SV H ER WHIP HR BB SO
Pittsburgh 4.84 30 612 331 1.45 68 282 562
Colorado 4.77 40 511 285 1.39 60 235 496
Cincinnati 4.72 30 547 305 1.42 78 281 596
Kansas City 4.70 32 553 290 1.49 58 276 516
Boston 4.55 35 537 299 1.35 65 259 597
Arizona 4.55 31 527 269 1.38 62 210 455
Oakland 4.44 33 520 267 1.38 61 225 504
Chi. Cubs 4.25 40 570 295 1.33 97 264 678
Philadelphia 4.20 40 454 234 1.37 47 234 547
Miami 4.16 36 515 241 1.40 63 216 546
Chi. White Sox 4.12 44 510 253 1.31 56 214 574
San Francisco 4.01 38 599 266 1.37 61 218 532
LA Angels 4.00 33 481 251 1.24 80 216 527
Washington 3.99 28 553 265 1.30 80 226 548
Milwaukee 3.93 50 470 243 1.22 77 208 601
Minnesota 3.89 27 572 269 1.30 76 238 645
Toronto 3.85 43 509 247 1.24 76 204 569
San Diego 3.81 46 447 213 1.22 50 165 493
Texas 3.78 35 513 253 1.26 61 245 584
NY Mets 3.67 40 460 213 1.24 66 189 597
St. Louis 3.65 36 470 219 1.24 57 198 480
Baltimore 3.46 43 542 230 1.23 61 196 557
Detroit 3.46 34 491 220 1.25 43 223 557
Seattle 3.34 38 387 188 1.10 59 173 538
Tampa Bay 3.32 43 555 241 1.15 82 197 625
Cleveland 3.09 47 398 176 1.13 50 179 546
NY Yankees 3.06 44 417 181 1.18 36 214 540
Atlanta 3.05 51 419 177 1.16 50 185 592
LA Dodgers 2.97 40 403 178 1.05 52 164 577
Houston 2.78 50 359 145 1.14 32 174 535

[mvp 78]

The Sox are 26th out of 30 teams in bullpen ERA. If you look at the list, you will see that the teams with the highest bullpen ERAs are the teams at the bottom of the standings. The teams with the lowest bullpen ERAs are, for the most part, the playoff teams. With very few exceptions, there is a strong correlation between bullpen ERA and the success of the team. Building a better bullpen should be the number one priority this off season.

I don't think you'll find many people than would disagree with you.

[mvp 78]

Here is the list.
Team ERA SV H ER WHIP HR BB SO
Pittsburgh 4.84 30 612 331 1.45 68 282 562
Colorado 4.77 40 511 285 1.39 60 235 496
Cincinnati 4.72 30 547 305 1.42 78 281 596
Kansas City 4.70 32 553 290 1.49 58 276 516
Boston 4.55 35 537 299 1.35 65 259 597
Arizona 4.55 31 527 269 1.38 62 210 455
Oakland 4.44 33 520 267 1.38 61 225 504
Chi. Cubs 4.25 40 570 295 1.33 97 264 678
Philadelphia 4.20 40 454 234 1.37 47 234 547
Miami 4.16 36 515 241 1.40 63 216 546
Chi. White Sox 4.12 44 510 253 1.31 56 214 574
San Francisco 4.01 38 599 266 1.37 61 218 532
LA Angels 4.00 33 481 251 1.24 80 216 527
Washington 3.99 28 553 265 1.30 80 226 548
Milwaukee 3.93 50 470 243 1.22 77 208 601
Minnesota 3.89 27 572 269 1.30 76 238 645
Toronto 3.85 43 509 247 1.24 76 204 569
San Diego 3.81 46 447 213 1.22 50 165 493
Texas 3.78 35 513 253 1.26 61 245 584
NY Mets 3.67 40 460 213 1.24 66 189 597
St. Louis 3.65 36 470 219 1.24 57 198 480
Baltimore 3.46 43 542 230 1.23 61 196 557
Detroit 3.46 34 491 220 1.25 43 223 557
Seattle 3.34 38 387 188 1.10 59 173 538
Tampa Bay 3.32 43 555 241 1.15 82 197 625
Cleveland 3.09 47 398 176 1.13 50 179 546
NY Yankees 3.06 44 417 181 1.18 36 214 540
Atlanta 3.05 51 419 177 1.16 50 185 592
LA Dodgers 2.97 40 403 178 1.05 52 164 577
Houston 2.78 50 359 145 1.14 32 174 535

Of course Dombrowski is the big outlier here. He couldn't ever build a pen either.

[moonslav59]

I don't think you'll find many people than would disagree with you.

With no Wacha, Nate of Hill, is the pen really a higher priority than the rotation, especially if Houck and Whitlock are locked into pen-only roles? (We only lose Strahm from the pen- the rest are addition by subtraction.)

[Old Red]

With no Wacha, Nate of Hill, is the pen really a higher priority than the rotation, especially if Houck and Whitlock are locked into pen-only roles? (We only lose Strahm from the pen- the rest are addition by subtraction.)

You can’t just bring everyone else back, but Strahm, so it’s not we only lose Strahm. I’ve said since opening day this year that a reliable closer is needed, and I still feel that way, and to me that reliable closer is not on the team now. Yes we probably need 2 more starters too, and that’s taking a big chance that Sale will be healthy, and that is a big if. Houck, and Whitlock are coming off injuries, and who knows what Barnes will give you. I’m not counting on Schreiber to be as good next year, but if it happens great. Everyone has known all these holes were going to be there before this season even started, so filling those holes is nothing new.