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Thread: A Realistic View at 2022: Part III

  1. #1501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post
    You know what thought did? Thought Kike was going to be like last year, and go through a few hot streaks, but he SUCKED from day 1.
    That was unfortunately true. Add Kike to the list of players disappearing from the roster for 2023. Arroyo can be our utility infielder and Refsnyder our utility outfielder. Looks like a house cleaning is in order.

  2. #1502
    Kike is cooked! Time for us to move on from him!

  3. #1503
    Deity vegasbob's Avatar
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    Always enjoy the debates about all the guys who are not capable of playing right now. Why not talk about how Chris Sale is our best pitcher ? It reminds me of the old joke where a Dad explains to his son the difference between potential and reality.

  4. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegasbob View Post
    Always enjoy the debates about all the guys who are not capable of playing right now. Why not talk about how Chris Sale is our best pitcher ? It reminds me of the old joke where a Dad explains to his son the difference between potential and reality.
    The talk was about Bloom's lack of planning for a RH'd big bat, which he got with Story and the lack of a RH'd bat in the OF, which he had with Kike, before the injury and later with Refsnyder- the type of guy we all expected Bloom to find by the handfuls.

    It's a valid point to make, just as complaining about Bloom not being reactive after Kike's injury, Dalbec prolonged slump and the horror show on defense caused by players playing where they should not have been playing is the better attack point.

    Have at it.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  5. #1505
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    Now Houck is on the IL. This team might struggle to win 70 games.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  6. #1506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Now Houck is on the IL. This team might struggle to win 70 games.
    This has truly been a "snakebite" season.

    I'm not making excuses. Part of the reason we've done better than the Yanks for so many years, until now, is because they seemed to be snake-bitten by injuries and unexpected down-turns in key players, pre-past prime years. It is what it is. Bloom signed a bunch of injury prone players as a way to meet budget demands, and that bit us in the ass. Injuries to Kike, Houck and some of the younger players just added to the demise of the 2022 Sox.

    I still think we should have had a near total fire sale of all expiring contracts and maybe even a couple more players- not viewed as being part of the longer term plan. I know about fan reaction being tied to revenues, but I'd like to see us get back to winning, sooner rather than later, and I'm okay with sacrificing, as long as the future keeps looking brighter and brighter. I do think the deadline moves improved our longer term outlook, but not by as much as it could/should have been.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    This has truly been a "snakebite" season.

    I'm not making excuses. Part of the reason we've done better than the Yanks for so many years, until now, is because they seemed to be snake-bitten by injuries and unexpected down-turns in key players, pre-past prime years. It is what it is. Bloom signed a bunch of injury prone players as a way to meet budget demands, and that bit us in the ass. Injuries to Kike, Houck and some of the younger players just added to the demise of the 2022 Sox.

    I still think we should have had a near total fire sale of all expiring contracts and maybe even a couple more players- not viewed as being part of the longer term plan. I know about fan reaction being tied to revenues, but I'd like to see us get back to winning, sooner rather than later, and I'm okay with sacrificing, as long as the future keeps looking brighter and brighter. I do think the deadline moves improved our longer term outlook, but not by as much as it could/should have been.
    Just about every day we see details of ML players going to the IL. Some of those are key guys. Most teams have quite a few during the season and we certainly have had more than our share. Perhaps our problem is a lack of depth. It exists both in our pitching and our field players. We have a lot of dead money, perhaps keeping us from having real depth. Paxton, Price, Barnes and Sale constitute a lot of that so we wind up using guys over the Hill and rookie pitchers and in the field our depth was Dalbec, Cordero, Duran, JBJ and Plaweki. We even traded away our front line catcher. It has been evident for some time that we are not a competitive team and I agree, we should have been trading those not in our longer term plans. There are a lot of those, but clearly the two we might have gotten something for were Eovaldi and JDM.

    The front office and Bloom say we want to keep Bogaerts and while he would be a nice building block going forward, he may just want to move and may longer believe in Redd Sox management at any price. If he leaves, we have another serious hole to fill with an already difficult offseason scramble identified. Devers also can't be getting positive vibes from all this. So it looks like we better plan on Devers, Verdugo, Story, Arroyo and Hosmer for next season which leaves us looking for two OF, a SS/2nd, a 1st/DH (maybe Casas at 1st), a catcher and some depth pieces. Perhaps Refsnyder, Arroyo as depth with one of our catching prospects.

    In the pitching area we clearly have needs. The Sale contract has been a bust. I wonder what his real trade value would be? Probably significantly less than what we have to pay him in salary. Paxton is an unknown who probably shouldn't be renewed, so we have Pivetta, Crawford, Winkowski and a aging Sale to headline our staff. Perhaps Bello will become a viable MLer. In my view, we need 2 front line starters. Perhaps Wacha can be in the mix but Hill is toast. Our BP also needs help as they always typically do. I won't to into those but the demands on our budget may be enormous. I don't thin Bloom and the front office have put us in a position to be fully competitive in 2023 but like Moon, I would like to see major progress toward that goal with evidence of a plan to meet Bloom's rhetoric. It has been a very disappointing season. Let's give up any pretense of striving for a WC spot and give our best prospects some ML playing time.

  8. #1508
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    The talk was about Bloom's lack of planning for a RH'd big bat, which he got with Story and the lack of a RH'd bat in the OF, which he had with Kike, before the injury and later with Refsnyder- the type of guy we all expected Bloom to find by the handfuls.

    It's a valid point to make, just as complaining about Bloom not being reactive after Kike's injury, Dalbec prolonged slump and the horror show on defense caused by players playing where they should not have been playing is the better attack point.

    Have at it.

    To me his biggest mistake was dismantling what could have been a decent bullpen instead of reacting to Sale’s injury once it was announced. If they started the year with Houck and Whitlock nailing down the 8th and ninth innings as needed, the team doesn’t start 10-19…

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtimer View Post
    Just about every day we see details of ML players going to the IL. Some of those are key guys. Most teams have quite a few during the season and we certainly have had more than our share. Perhaps our problem is a lack of depth. It exists both in our pitching and our field players. We have a lot of dead money, perhaps keeping us from having real depth. Paxton, Price, Barnes and Sale constitute a lot of that so we wind up using guys over the Hill and rookie pitchers and in the field our depth was Dalbec, Cordero, Duran, JBJ and Plaweki. We even traded away our front line catcher. It has been evident for some time that we are not a competitive team and I agree, we should have been trading those not in our longer term plans. There are a lot of those, but clearly the two we might have gotten something for were Eovaldi and JDM.

    The front office and Bloom say we want to keep Bogaerts and while he would be a nice building block going forward, he may just want to move and may longer believe in Redd Sox management at any price. If he leaves, we have another serious hole to fill with an already difficult offseason scramble identified. Devers also can't be getting positive vibes from all this. So it looks like we better plan on Devers, Verdugo, Story, Arroyo and Hosmer for next season which leaves us looking for two OF, a SS/2nd, a 1st/DH (maybe Casas at 1st), a catcher and some depth pieces. Perhaps Refsnyder, Arroyo as depth with one of our catching prospects.

    In the pitching area we clearly have needs. The Sale contract has been a bust. I wonder what his real trade value would be? Probably significantly less than what we have to pay him in salary. Paxton is an unknown who probably shouldn't be renewed, so we have Pivetta, Crawford, Winkowski and a aging Sale to headline our staff. Perhaps Bello will become a viable MLer. In my view, we need 2 front line starters. Perhaps Wacha can be in the mix but Hill is toast. Our BP also needs help as they always typically do. I won't to into those but the demands on our budget may be enormous. I don't thin Bloom and the front office have put us in a position to be fully competitive in 2023 but like Moon, I would like to see major progress toward that goal with evidence of a plan to meet Bloom's rhetoric. It has been a very disappointing season. Let's give up any pretense of striving for a WC spot and give our best prospects some ML playing time.

    If you are one of those who believes you can’t re-sign a player you traded away, then there is at least one positive to keeping Bogaerts at the deadline…

  10. #1510
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    To me his biggest mistake was dismantling what could have been a decent bullpen instead of reacting to Sale’s injury once it was announced. If they started the year with Houck and Whitlock nailing down the 8th and ninth innings as needed, the team doesn’t start 10-19…
    Now you are coming around to what I’ve been saying since day 1, and I also believe it was Bloom decision to put Whitlock into the rotation, which many on here liked as well. Whitlock hasn’t been the same since Just another example of Bloom not having a clue.

  11. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    This has truly been a "snakebite" season.

    I'm not making excuses. Part of the reason we've done better than the Yanks for so many years, until now, is because they seemed to be snake-bitten by injuries and unexpected down-turns in key players, pre-past prime years. It is what it is. Bloom signed a bunch of injury prone players as a way to meet budget demands, and that bit us in the ass. Injuries to Kike, Houck and some of the younger players just added to the demise of the 2022 Sox.

    I still think we should have had a near total fire sale of all expiring contracts and maybe even a couple more players- not viewed as being part of the longer term plan. I know about fan reaction being tied to revenues, but I'd like to see us get back to winning, sooner rather than later, and I'm okay with sacrificing, as long as the future keeps looking brighter and brighter. I do think the deadline moves improved our longer term outlook, but not by as much as it could/should have been.
    Having Bloom in charge, and judging by the results is all the sacrifices I want to make, and the RESULTS is not what I want to see. All the fire sale talk on here even before the season started showed where some were going, or hoping.

  12. #1512
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post
    Now you are coming around to what I’ve been saying since day 1, and I also believe it was Bloom decision to put Whitlock into the rotation, which many on here liked as well. Whitlock hasn’t been the same since Just another example of Bloom not having a clue.
    Good to see you're coming around on front office meddling, since it never made sense that a manager wouldn't want to put his players in the best positions to succeed this year -- the one he's actually in charge of -- and not worry about weakening his bullpen by stretching someone out to be a starting pitcher for next year.

  13. #1513
    Apparently Whitlock can’t handle back to back days, and when he does needs multiple days off. Not sure if the Sox are being too cautious at this point or what, but that certainly hamstrings the bullpen overall. If they’re going to rest him that much they should just fully commit to him as a starter. I think they will next year.

    Barnes laying eggs didn’t help either.

  14. #1514
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    Good to see you're coming around on front office meddling, since it never made sense that a manager wouldn't want to put his players in the best positions to succeed this year -- the one he's actually in charge of -- and not worry about weakening his bullpen by stretching someone out to be a starting pitcher for next year.
    I’ve always thought that Bloom makes more decisions like Whitlock, Arroyo, Duran, and Franchy creating a clown show. Maybe Bloom should be the manager to see what he can do with the mess he created.

  15. #1515
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post
    I’ve always thought that Bloom makes more decisions like Whitlock, Arroyo, Duran, and Franchy creating a clown show. Maybe Bloom should be the manager to see what he can do with the mess he created.
    Bloom likes guys who can fill multi roles, none exceptionally well.

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