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Thread: A Realistic View at 2022: Part III

  1. #1876
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I think theoretical and deep thinker fans, whoever they are, are disappointed by this season, too. All Sox fans are. Some are angry to varying degrees.

    Deciding what the reasons for sucking and assigning blame may be done differently from fan to fan, and I guess one views others as making excuses, when their reasoning differs from their own.

    I could say to Bloombashers, "You are just making excuses for the poor play by the players and clubhouse leadership of the team." I'm NOT interested in excuses like these! The team sucks because the players did not meet expectations! STOP blaming the manager and GM!

    In all seriousness, just about everyone shares in the blame, especially the crybaby fans.

    LOL.
    The is no doubt the players poor play from Bogey, JD, and the past month of Devers too have contributed to this shit show, and don’t leave out Kike either who sucked in the leadoff spot from day 1. However there was a cloud over the team, before the season even started with Blooms less than genius contract offers to Bogey, and Raffy. No plan by Bloom, and Cora for the backend of the BP to start the season, and then the Clown show at 1B with Franchy, and RF experience of Arroyo that took two months to long to fix, so yes Cora, and Bloom get a big share of the blame too. As for the one calling fans shallow, crybabies, or whiners probably are looking in the mirror.

  2. #1877
    The guy at the top has to be accountable for the results. In this case , the guy at the top is Bloom and the results have not been good.
    Old school is good school.

  3. #1878
    To get back to Sale : I think he still has good stuff when healthy . Maybe not as good as he once did , but still good . The question is : Will he ever get healthy and stay that way ? My suggestion was to make him the closer. It is an area of glaring need and he has both the stuff and the mentality to do it well. It would be a new challenge for him and it would decrease his overall workload. Maybe he could be like Eck. One objection to that says he makes too much money . To that I say , he is going to make that money anyway , even while on the shelf. Another objection is that starters are more important/va!uable than closers . To that I say , not necessarily . Some starters are , but some are not . And starters on the I.L.are definitely not. The role of the starting pitcher has changed in recent years . I honestly think the Sox should give this idea a try next year.
    Old school is good school.

  4. #1879
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgalehouse View Post
    To get back to Sale : I think he still has good stuff when healthy . Maybe not as good as he once did , but still good . The question is : Will he ever get healthy and stay that way ? My suggestion was to make him the closer. It is an area of glaring need and he has both the stuff and the mentality to do it well. It would be a new challenge for him and it would decrease his overall workload. Maybe he could be like Eck. One objection to that says he makes too much money . To that I say , he is going to make that money anyway , even while on the shelf. Another objection is that starters are more important/va!uable than closers . To that I say , not necessarily . Some starters are , but some are not . And starters on the I.L.are definitely not. The role of the starting pitcher has changed in recent years . I honestly think the Sox should give this idea a try next year.
    I wouldn’t mind if they bumped Sale to closer, but I’d be surprised.

    If there is a positive spin to Sale’s 2022, it’s that none of his injuries were to his left shoulder or left elbow. Even the broken wrist was his right one. He did break his left pinky finger, so I don’t know if that will impact anything pitching-wise, but it’s certainly not as important as his left index and middle fingers…

  5. #1880
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    I wouldn’t mind if they bumped Sale to closer, but I’d be surprised.

    If there is a positive spin to Sale’s 2022, it’s that none of his injuries were to his left shoulder or left elbow. Even the broken wrist was his right one. He did break his left pinky finger, so I don’t know if that will impact anything pitching-wise, but it’s certainly not as important as his left index and middle fingers…
    Maybe the extra "rest" to his shoulder and arm will extend his career or make him stronger for the remining years of team control.
    Sox 4 Ever

  6. #1881
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    I wouldn’t mind if they bumped Sale to closer, but I’d be surprised.
    The most common line I read from fans and reporters is that "he makes too much money to close." I guess a business plan combining budget and analytics would want to justify the team's biggest pitching investment by covering the most possible innings (and ideally outs) -- and thus, keeping him in the rotation.

    For the same reason, we should expect they'd want to convert young Whitlock back to starting. But all of us experts know -- or have at least discussed -- the merits of locking down winnable games in the closing innings.

    Is there really a fine line between securing wins, and the subsequent profits of having a winning record? Did it pay off for the A's when Eckersly morphed into the first lights-out, 9th-inning only HOF finisher??? Maybe Oakland's attendance in the 90s is a bad example as a gauge, but the move certainly paid off in the standings...

  7. #1882
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    The most common line I read from fans and reporters is that "he makes too much money to close." I guess a business plan combining budget and analytics would want to justify the team's biggest pitching investment by covering the most possible innings (and ideally outs) -- and thus, keeping him in the rotation.

    For the same reason, we should expect they'd want to convert young Whitlock back to starting. But all of us experts know -- or have at least discussed -- the merits of locking down winnable games in the closing innings.

    Is there really a fine line between securing wins, and the subsequent profits of having a winning record? Did it pay off for the A's when Eckersly morphed into the first lights-out, 9th-inning only HOF finisher??? Maybe Oakland's attendance in the 90s is a bad example as a gauge, but the move certainly paid off in the standings...
    Bear in mind, it’s not the Sox saying “he makes too much money to close.” That’s probably coming from fans and stupid journalists.

    The White Sox briefly put him in that role, and the Red Sox did earlier this year. https://nesn.com/2022/05/could-chris...sox-undecided/


    Anyone saying he makes “too much money to close” isn’t paying attention this year. By that logic, one should also assume Jackie Bradley made too much money to DFA..

  8. #1883
    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    Bear in mind, it’s not the Sox saying “he makes too much money to close.” That’s probably coming from fans and stupid journalists.

    The White Sox briefly put him in that role, and the Red Sox did earlier this year. https://nesn.com/2022/05/could-chris...sox-undecided/


    Anyone saying he makes “too much money to close” isn’t paying attention this year. By that logic, one should also assume Jackie Bradley made too much money to DFA..
    I've been on board with the idea of Sale closing -- and becoming a force like Eck or Smoltz -- since he forced Machado to take a (his own) knee.

    It just made sense to allow a guy who was already breaking down at the end of every season to continue to dominate in a Mariano amount of frames, instead of pedal-to-the-mettle Sale totals.

    This, of course, was all before he became the Red Sox' notorious Panda Rusney Crawdad of the mound...

  9. #1884
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    I've been on board with the idea of Sale closing -- and becoming a force like Eck or Smoltz -- since he forced Machado to take a (his own) knee.

    It just made sense to allow a guy who was already breaking down at the end of every season to continue to dominate in a Mariano amount of frames, instead of pedal-to-the-mettle Sale totals.

    This, of course, was all before he became the Red Sox' notorious Panda Rusney Crawdad of the mound...
    It might not be a bad idea, but many pitchers come back from TJS and do very well.

    I don't think this last injury counts as "breaking down at he end of the season," but certainly there is a lot of data that shows he declines towards the end of most seasons.

    He'd be one hell of an expensive closer, but right now, he's a very expensive IL guy, so why not?

    That solves the Whitlock question and makes Houck an awesome set-up guy who can go 2 IP, if needed.
    Sox 4 Ever

  10. #1885
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    It might not be a bad idea, but many pitchers come back from TJS and do very well.

    I don't think this last injury counts as "breaking down at he end of the season," but certainly there is a lot of data that shows he declines towards the end of most seasons.

    He'd be one hell of an expensive closer, but right now, he's a very expensive IL guy, so why not?

    That solves the Whitlock question and makes Houck an awesome set-up guy who can go 2 IP, if needed.
    Yep.

    Too bad it will never happen.

    And that’s because even 50% of Sale is a valuable commodity as a starter. If anything, he might become an opener…

  11. #1886
    The idea of making Sale a closer isn't a bad one. But here's the big question; will Sale agree to go from starting to closing?

  12. #1887
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPLENDIDSPLINTER View Post
    The idea of making Sale a closer isn't a bad one. But here's the big question; will Sale agree to go from starting to closing?
    Make him an open and use him 2-3 times per week in that role. That way he’s always facing the better and best hitters on the other team and (hopefully) neutralizing them for at least one turn…

  13. #1888
    Quote Originally Posted by SPLENDIDSPLINTER View Post
    The idea of making Sale a closer isn't a bad one. But here's the big question; will Sale agree to go from starting to closing?
    Hey, Chris, instead of throwing six or seven innings once a week, can you give us just three... maybe four... but every other day? You'll still make $32 mil per, and we'll even furnish the bullpen with weekly supplies of yellow city jerseys and machetes for you to loosen up with, plus a tricycle and boxes of old ipads and flip phones to ride over. Someone on eBay already donated an old El Guapo arm sleeve to slip over your torso to keep your ribs intact...

  14. #1889
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Converting Sale to a reliever would only be a last-ditch option if he couldn't perform as a starter any more.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  15. #1890
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Converting Sale to a reliever would only be a last-ditch option if he couldn't perform as a starter any more.
    As 6 year old Notin used ask his mom every 15 minutes on a drive from Worcester to Albany to see grandma - “Are we there yet?”

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