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Thread: A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    Rookies Jarren Duran (leadoff) and Jeter Downs (No. 9 hitter) went a combined 0-for-7 with five strikeouts.

    Franchy Cordero went 0-for-4 with two strikeouts and left five men on base. He’s 0-for-21 with 17 strikeouts in his past seven


    Isn't it time to give up on Cordero?

    Develop pitchers and buy position players?
    Those comments are vicious and uncalled for. This very brave Sox team finally can see the end of the tunnel. I don't mean they will start winning--that's simply asking for too much.

    But tonight they showed they can reasonably expect to lose by less than 10 runs.

  2. #32
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    We will likely see a lot of Duran, Downs, Cordero, Dalbec and Refsnyder, the rest of the way.

    For some, the decision about what to expect going forward is as close to being made, but maybe they get one last long look. For others, like Refsnyder and some of our younger pitchers, maybe we'll get a good chance to improve our read on their a bility to match up with major leaguers.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  3. #33
    Major Leaguer MADSTORK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    We will likely see a lot of Duran, Downs, Cordero, Dalbec and Refsnyder, the rest of the way.

    For some, the decision about what to expect going forward is as close to being made, but maybe they get one last long look. For others, like Refsnyder and some of our younger pitchers, maybe we'll get a good chance to improve our read on their a bility to match up with major leaguers.
    Refsnyder is 32 years old bye bye
    Far as the other beer leaguers Cordero Dalbec both with some power and perhaps Duran with his speed might fetch a few low level prospects at the deadline
    Downs is a complete bust BUT since the Betts deal brought back zero return no reason not to play the bust and maybe you get lucky?

    Casas to 1B see if he has the tools at the mlb level in a few weeks

    Fast fact, since Orlando has been in control Bullpen has 46 blown saves, Priceless!
    Last edited by MADSTORK; 07-23-2022 at 09:15 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    We will likely see a lot of Duran, Downs, Cordero, Dalbec and Refsnyder, the rest of the way.

    For some, the decision about what to expect going forward is as close to being made, but maybe they get one last long look. For others, like Refsnyder and some of our younger pitchers, maybe we'll get a good chance to improve our read on their a bility to match up with major leaguers.

    My take on the players that you mention:

    Duran - I was a supporter for a long while, thinking his speed was valuable, especially if he could hit anything like his minor league example. First time up he was extremely strikeout prone. The second time up he was better about pitch selection but his swing is long and he isn't getting hits out of his contact. His shaky defense hasn't improved. At his age, it appears we need to look elsewhere.

    Downs - He has shown defensive abilities but hasn't hit in the minors and is lost in the majors. Perhaps we should give him additional time in thee minors and see if the lightbulb comes on. Otherwise, he is no major leaguer.

    Cordero - Some power but a very poor hitter who is also a very poor defender. Let's move on as he is not going to help the team to be competitive.

    Dalbec - He has power and has had his moments but doesn't appear to see the ball that well. He has had enough time to demonstrate his hitting which is not good. He is a still defender at first an doesn't move well enough at first. Another guy that we should move on from.

    Refsnyder - He is an older guy who couldn't make it with other teams. Of the lot he appears to be the best, but a utility role should be his limit. Good enough to hang around with a low salary commitment.


    We don't have much time to wait before the trade deadline and we see what Bloom is intending to do. Probably sell. If that is the case, why not bring up Casas and others and jettison those that won't be with the club next season. Perhaps that causes a money is
    sue that I don't understand, otherwise bringing up prospects and getting a look makes sense. If we can make a decent trade for a ML player or prospects, fine. Let's start looking to 2023 and beyond.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MADSTORK View Post
    Refsnyder is 32 years old bye bye
    Far as the other beer leaguers Cordero Dalbec both with some power and perhaps Duran with his speed might fetch a few low level prospects at the deadline
    Downs is a complete bust BUT since the Betts deal brought back zero return no reason not to play the bust and maybe you get lucky?

    Casas to 1B see if he has the tools at the mlb level in a few weeks

    Fast fact, since Orlando has been in control Bullpen has 46 blown saves, Priceless!
    Actually 56 blown saves.

    Of course your precious Yankees have 48 blown saves in that same time frame.

    It probably doesn’t help your statement that you have no idea what a blown save is…

  6. #36
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldtimer View Post
    [B]
    My take on the players that you mention:

    Duran - I was a supporter for a long while, thinking his speed was valuable, especially if he could hit anything like his minor league example. First time up he was extremely strikeout prone. The second time up he was better about pitch selection but his swing is long and he isn't getting hits out of his contact. His shaky defense hasn't improved. At his age, it appears we need to look elsewhere.

    Downs - He has shown defensive abilities but hasn't hit in the minors and is lost in the majors. Perhaps we should give him additional time in thee minors and see if the lightbulb comes on. Otherwise, he is no major leaguer.

    Cordero - Some power but a very poor hitter who is also a very poor defender. Let's move on as he is not going to help the team to be competitive.

    Dalbec - He has power and has had his moments but doesn't appear to see the ball that well. He has had enough time to demonstrate his hitting which is not good. He is a still defender at first an doesn't move well enough at first. Another guy that we should move on from.

    Refsnyder - He is an older guy who couldn't make it with other teams. Of the lot he appears to be the best, but a utility role should be his limit. Good enough to hang around with a low salary commitment.


    We don't have much time to wait before the trade deadline and we see what Bloom is intending to do. Probably sell. If that is the case, why not bring up Casas and others and jettison those that won't be with the club next season. Perhaps that causes a money is
    sue that I don't understand, otherwise bringing up prospects and getting a look makes sense. If we can make a decent trade for a ML player or prospects, fine. Let's start looking to 2023 and beyond.
    I don't have much faith in any of these guys, except for maybe Refsnyder, who deserves a longer look, in hopes he's a late bloomer with more in the tank.

    I'm just saying, these guys will play out the season to see, if there is a glimmer of hope to hold onto one or two of them, perhaps just a little longer. If Casas was ready, maybe Dalbec and Cordero would play less, but I'm not sure we'll see Casas, this summer.

    I'd like to see Fitzy, Wong, R Hern, Stewart and some pitchers like German and maybe Murphy & Groome for a bit.

    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  7. #37
    Deity Kimmi's Avatar
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    As always, I protest starting this thread halfway through the 2022 season.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    As always, I protest starting this thread halfway through the 2022 season.
    I was hoping that the sox would play decent until the deadline and then show their true colors. This way they wouldn't do what's in their best interest and trade the expiring contracts.

    But part of me likes to see moonslob waiving the white flag already......
    Last edited by JDavis76; 07-24-2022 at 11:12 AM.

  9. #39
    Legend Nick's Avatar
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    I'm watching today...Bello is making his third start. He's started twice vs the Rays and now the Jays. Welcome to big leagues.

    6 more years of team control
    Winckowski
    Cutter
    Bello

    Matta no doubt will join this group in 2023.

    I like it.
    I write fictional stories in my spare time. So don't fact check me. Better?

  10. #40
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDavis76 View Post
    But part of me likes to see moonslob waiving the white flag already......
    Yet another unprovoked attack.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  11. #41
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    As always, I protest starting this thread halfway through the 2022 season.
    It was a tough choice, but I feel like talking about next year has risen above talking about this year.

    I have not totally given up on this year, but I'm thinking way more about 2023 and beyond than the upcoming playoffs and our chances of making them.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Yet another unprovoked attack.
    Nonsense, even though he has me blocked, he still feels the need to comment about me daily.

    But he's your butt buddy, so I know you will always defend him.......

  13. #43
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDavis76 View Post
    Nonsense, even though he has me blocked, he still feels the need to comment about me daily.

    But he's your butt buddy, so I know you will always defend him.......
    Butt buddy. Not surprising that's where you take it.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  14. #44
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDavis76 View Post
    Nonsense, even though he has me blocked, he still feels the need to comment about me daily.

    But he's your butt buddy, so I know you will always defend him.......
    That's bullshit about him commenting about you, too. You're a liar.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  15. #45
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    To go back to the first post: I may be naive or overly optimistic, but I think this looks like a solid core or players and prospects to build upon. I had left some prospects off the list. Here is the updated version of our 2023 and beyond foundation...

    SP: _____, Sale, Pivetta, Paxton, Winckowski
    Crawford, Bello, Mata, Seabold, Groome, Walter, Murphy, Gonzalez, TWard

    RP: Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber, _____, Taylor, Davis, Brasier
    German, Danish, DHern

    C: _____, Wong
    R Hernandez, Cottam, Hickey

    1B: _____, Dalbec/Cordero
    Casas, Cordero or Dalbec, Jordan, Kavadas

    2B: Story
    Yorke, Paulino

    3B: Devers
    Binelas

    SS: ______, Downs
    Mayer, Lugo, Bonaci

    LF: Verdugo, Duran

    CF: ______
    Rafaela, Koss

    RF: Refsnyder
    Jimenez, McDonough

    If we spend $95-110M, this winter, I think we can maybe get better than we are, now, while maintaining an even brighter longer term outlook as our farm hands continue to impress and grow.

    Between Mayer, Casas, Rafaela, Yorke, Bleis, Kavadas, Hickey, Paulino, Binelas, Jordan and others, I think we will have enough farm infusions, spread out, over the next 1-4 years that will allow us to spend more at other key positions.

    We've heard a lot about the failure of our farm to produce top pitchers, and those ideas are not unfounded, but there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel, as well as already getting some promising results from Houck, Whitlock, Winckowski, Crawford and others.

    All we need are 2-3 significant contributions from a large amount of promising young pitchers beyond Houck & Whitlock:

    Winckowski
    Crawford
    Bello
    Mata
    Walter
    Murphy
    Seabold
    Gonzalez
    German

    or from some longer shots like...
    Song
    Groome
    T Ward
    Drohan
    Bastardo
    Uberstine

    I'm still very hopeful about the 2023 team, but more so about 2024 and beyond.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

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