A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

The flaw in this argument is that the Sox couldn’t afford Betts after someone closed up the budget by extending Sale and Bogaerts and doling out the largest contract in team history to a pitcher who gave them 588 IP and 9.7 bWAR. Neither is a horrible number for the 4 years he was on the team, but the contract itself was a massive albatross from Day One…

This will always be the grassy knoll in the Mookie character assassination conspiracy. Some day there will be an expose on History Channel where a former Red Sox intern in a disguised voice and shadowed face swears he overheard Henry issuing his first mandate to Bloom: "get rid of Price."

It may be the one thing Bloom can't admit to, but he did tell the Winter Weekend boobirds they were smart -- which just might mean he knows we all know there is no way any club would even touch half the contract of a miserable ballplayer who only plays every fifth day and is just ok maybe half that time for a $32 million dollar salary... unless Betts was attached to the deal.

[Bobe2]

The flaw in Bloom's argument against making his big Betts three years ago is that Mookie is still a great freaking ballplayer today, and better all-around than Devers. Will Mookie be in five years? Maybe not, but according to Chaim's argument again -- that longterm guys are "much better up front than on the back end" -- Raffy might not be so good, by then, either.

If Devers doesn’t get some protection batting behind him, he will suffer now, nobody will pitch to him, he has a big plate anyway so pitchers will make it even bigger

[moonslav59]

The flaw in Bloom's argument against making his big Betts three years ago is that Mookie is still a great freaking ballplayer today, and better all-around than Devers. Will Mookie be in five years? Maybe not, but according to Chaim's argument again -- that longterm guys are "much better up front than on the back end" -- Raffy might not be so good, by then, either.

I agree, and I was the guy saying we should give Betts a 14 year deal, but to me, the Betts choice was really JH's. I'm not saying Bloom tried to talk JH into signing Betts, but the idea looked like 5 year plan was needed, and Betts would be nearing post prime by then.

Now, the 5 year plan is 1-2 years away from realization, so the Devers case fits better.

[moonslav59]

Actually now that Casas and Bello are all but assured MLB jobs, Bloom did bring in 5 of the team’s top 8 prospects. None of his have graduated yet, but that’s far from surprising in 3 years…

Impatience is not a virtue.

[moonslav59]

If Devers doesn’t get some protection batting behind him, he will suffer now, nobody will pitch to him, he has a big plate anyway so pitchers will make it even bigger

The 5 year plan is almost up. Let's see how it plays out.

[Bellhorn04]

This will always be the grassy knoll in the Mookie character assassination conspiracy. Some day there will be an expose on History Channel where a former Red Sox intern in a disguised voice and shadowed face swears he overheard Henry issuing his first mandate to Bloom: "get rid of Price."

It may be the one thing Bloom can't admit to, but he did tell the Winter Weekend boobirds they were smart -- which just might mean he knows we all know there is no way any club would even touch half the contract of a miserable ballplayer who only plays every fifth day and is just ok maybe half that time for a $32 million dollar salary... unless Betts was attached to the deal.

Sure, that's pretty obvious, but what's the big deal about it?

To get under the tax threshold, Bloom had to trade Mookie and someone else making 10-15 million or whatever. It was convenient that he could get both things done in one deal.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree, and I was the guy saying we should give Betts a 14 year deal, but to me, the Betts choice was really JH's. I'm not saying Bloom tried to talk JH into signing Betts, but the idea looked like 5 year plan was needed, and Betts would be nearing post prime by then.

Yep, and the age difference Betts and Devers is 4 full years. That's a lot of years in relation to an MLB career.

[Bellhorn04]

True as well.

And overall, the free agents Henry has shelled maybe a billion or so for over the years haven’t really done much…

Most have been busts, but if you jump in the way-back machine and undo all those signings, we would have fewer rings-maybe none.

[moonslav59]

Yep, and the age difference Betts and Devers is 4 full years. That's a lot of years in relation to an MLB career.

If anything, these last 3 years proved just how little support Betts would have had around him through his prime years. He turns 31 this October.

Imagine the roster we had the last 3 years, and then subtract all the players we signed to keep the budget equal to what Betts and 1/2 Price would have cost. Couple that with a farm that provided Houck, Dalbec, Duran and names I don't want to mention, and the picture looks pretty clear, to me.,

Now, with some of the deadwood contracts off the books, a promising farm already contributing our projected starting 1B (Casas), 2 SPs (Bello & Whitlock) and a key RP (Houck), and the addition of several more meaningful FAs (Yoshida, Kluber, Turner, Jansen, Martin & Duvall) than in any of the last 3 seasons, and maybe all 3 combined, yes, I'd say conditions are much more favorable for adding support players around a homegrown star.

[notin]

Most have been busts, but if you jump in the way-back machine and undo all those signings, we would have fewer rings-maybe none.

Maybe. Although a lot of that rests entirely on your definition of a bust and throw in a little supposition…

[5GoldGloves:OF,75]

Sure, that's pretty obvious, but what's the big deal about it?

To get under the tax threshold, Bloom had to trade Mookie and someone else making 10-15 million or whatever. It was convenient that he could get both things done in one deal.

Instead, the Red Sox were over the tax threshold last year and still didn't have Mookie. If you're a billionaire and going to be over, might as well blast into another orbit, like Cohen.

I think both Mookie and Raffy will be really good players for the next five years. Let's see which org -- LA or Boston -- does best in surrounding their big bets with talent.

[Bellhorn04]

In the midst of all our griping this offseason, the story about the Red Sox negotiations with Devers at his home in the Dominican was actually pretty cool. Cora was there and when Devers first saw the offer his eyes got really big, according to Cora.

[moonslav59]

Sure, that's pretty obvious, but what's the big deal about it?

To get under the tax threshold, Bloom had to trade Mookie and someone else making 10-15 million or whatever. It was convenient that he could get both things done in one deal.

Unless, somehow, someway, our GM could have and would have convinced JH to not slash the budget from 2019 to 2020, what other choices did we have? Trading Bogey & Sale?

We only spent something like $15-20M in the winter of 2019-2020 after not replacing Porcello and a few other departing players and trading away the salaries or Betts and 1/2 Price. I think the total budget slash was close to $60M.

To me, it's revisionist history to think we could have build a supporting team around Betts on the budgets provided Bloom in 2020, 2021 and 2022.

It seems like trading Betts & Price was a given. We'd have wasted 3+ years of Betts and likely not been bad enough to get Mayer in the draft.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe. Although a lot of that rests entirely on your definition of a bust and throw in a little supposition…

Supposition is what we do here. I'm talking about Foulke, Dice-K, Drew, Lackey, Victorino, Price, JDM and others, and that's not even counting Mr. Duquette's prize free agent signing.

That's pretty reasonable supposition.

[notin]

In the midst of all our griping this offseason, the story about the Red Sox negotiations with Devers at his home in the Dominican was actually pretty cool. Cora was there and when Devers first saw the offer his eyes got really big, according to Cora.

… at which point his agent blindfolded Devers and decided the conversation could proceed slowly from there…