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Thread: 2023 Prospects

  1. #1876
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    But it does happen. Some guys are super wild, and barely throw strikes, but when they do, it's picture perfect. Go watch a couple of the few good starts Victor Zambrano had in 2004, and you'll see exactly what I mean. Dude's all over the place in the same AB, but the strikes he does throw are usually in the corners, and low in the strike zone, as if he was painting. Pure insanity.
    WAR is good for something.

  2. #1877
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    This is what I don't get. How can you have command without having control?
    Let's say the catcher puts his mitt right on the edge of the K zone, but close enough that the ump will call a strike 99% of the time, if you hit the mitt every time.

    Pitcher A misses the mitt by 1/2 inch, but to the K zone side. Pitcher B misses the mitt by 1/2 inch, but to the out of zone size.

    In theory, Pitcher A has great control and good to great command.
    Pitcher B has horrible control but good to great command, as he misses the mitt by the same amount as pitcher A.

    Is this correct?

    It just seems off to me, for some reason, although I get the definitions applied by people who analyze pitchers.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  3. #1878
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Let's say the catcher puts his mitt right on the edge of the K zone, but close enough that the ump will call a strike 99% of the time, if you hit the mitt every time.

    Pitcher A misses the mitt by 1/2 inch, but to the K zone side. Pitcher B misses the mitt by 1/2 inch, but to the out of zone size.

    In theory, Pitcher A has great control and good to great command.
    Pitcher B has horrible control but good to great command, as he misses the mitt by the same amount as pitcher A.

    Is this correct?

    It just seems off to me, for some reason, although I get the definitions applied by people who analyze pitchers.
    Can't quantify it on a single pitch.
    WAR is good for something.

  4. #1879
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notin View Post
    I donít get that either.

    I can see having control but no command, but not the other way aroundÖ
    I guess if you come very close to the target set by your catcher, but always to the non K-zone side. You have "command," because you just barely miss the target, but poor control, because it's often outside the K zone.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  5. #1880
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipre View Post
    Can't quantify it on a single pitch.
    I'm saying what if this happens 90% of the time?

    Catchers rarely set the target right down the middle.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  6. #1881
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Player A throws 65% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about half of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good control, but not good command.
    Player B throws 65% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about 15% of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good command and control.
    Player C throws 48% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about 15% of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good command but not good control.

    This oversimplifies things, as a lot of pitches are thrown out of the zone on purpose, but you get the gist of it.
    WAR is good for something.

  7. #1882
    Quote Originally Posted by Dipre View Post
    Player A throws 65% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about half of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good control, but not good command.
    Player B throws 65% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about 15% of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good command and control.
    Player C throws 48% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about 15% of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good command but not good control.

    This oversimplifies things, as a lot of pitches are thrown out of the zone on purpose, but you get the gist of it.
    Not bad -- Player C is harder to hit, but not as reliable than A or B?

    Here's a chart from a new MLB.com article about Monty... not sure their formula (but it does show that Burnes is still a good option):

    Pitchers with highest in-zone run value in 2023
    Regular and postseason combined

    Gerrit Cole: +65 runs prevented
    Blake Snell: +56 runs prevented
    Sonny Gray: +53 runs prevented
    Zac Gallen: +49 runs prevented
    Kodai Senga: +49 runs prevented
    Kyle Bradish: +48 runs prevented
    Cristian Javier: +46 runs prevented
    Corbin Burnes: +45 runs prevented
    Zack Wheeler: +44 runs prevented
    Jordan Montgomery: +43 runs prevented

  8. #1883
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipre View Post
    Player A throws 65% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about half of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good control, but not good command.
    Player B throws 65% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about 15% of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good command and control.
    Player C throws 48% of his pitches in the strike zone, but about 15% of those end up in the wheelhouse area of the zone. That player has good command but not good control.

    This oversimplifies things, as a lot of pitches are thrown out of the zone on purpose, but you get the gist of it.
    We understand the set definitions of the terms used.

    I'm just saying, it goes against intuition to look at my examples of picther A & B and say the guy who misses the mitt by a wide margin, almost every time has "better control" than I guy who misses the mitt by 1/2 inch almost every time, but always to the non K-zone side has "poor control."

    The word control has long-standing connotations to it from other uses of the word.

    I'm fine with using two terms to distinguish between two different areas of pitcher analyzation, but it just seems counterintuitive to me to say pitcher A had better control than pitcher B, because more of his way off the mitt pitches end up being stikes.

    I'm not trying to start an argument or lobby for a change in terms, but it's hard for me to think a guy who misses the mitt by as much as "A" does to say he has great control.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  9. #1884
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Command is a myth. It's just whether a pitcher is clutch or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post
    I get MV Pee.

  10. #1885
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Command is a myth. It's just whether a pitcher is clutch or not.
    Aces.
    WAR is good for something.

  11. #1886
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Command is a myth. It's just whether a pitcher is clutch or not.
    Post of the week.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  12. #1887
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Iím thinking following the farm might be more interesting, fun and satisfying than the big club.

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