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Thread: Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

  1. #8551
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    Watching the national pastime last night, the one parallel to the Red Sox was ten guys standing around a ref flipping a coin. That's how the front office decides every trade deadline: "heads we buy, tails we sell"... until Henry walks in and says, "Head will roll if you spend."
    And then Henry passing the buck if it fails after the fact. "It was them, not me."
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  2. #8552
    If the budget is indeed 200 million, then we have a little tiny bit more to cut. This means trades are needed. Is bres-slow waiting for spring training injuries on other teams to unclog our outfield and find a starter or two?

  3. #8553
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    They had a really great thing going under Theo, but trashed the whole enterprise after one bad season. It was the dumbest decision Henry ever made. He should have overpaid to keep Theo around and kept Tito as well. Ben single handedly set the org back 5 years with his bad drafting and IFA shenanigans. After a season and a half of bad baseball, Henry decided Ben's build from within approach didn't work (even though we saw additions of Xander, Mookie, JBJ, etc.). DD came in and used all the leftover assets to make a push to compete at the MLB level and ignore the farm. This blew up everything that Theo had originally built. Expecting Bloom to come in and fix the farm while competing was kind of foolish. The farm depth has gotten better, but the pitching is still a mess. I'm hopeful that Crag can push the pitching development forward and that the org is back to what it was in the Theo days.

    You're right, it's like Henry is bipolar or whatever. He just needs to stay out of it IMO. There are too many voices in the FO. Maybe that settles down now that it's Theo and Crag?
    If it doesn't, then Henry is definitely an idiot. He gave Theo *partnership stake* in a multi-billion dollar business conglomerate to basically come fix this mess. With the money he gave Theo, he better let him cook.
    WAR is good for something.

  4. #8554
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    They had a really great thing going under Theo, but trashed the whole enterprise after one bad season. It was the dumbest decision Henry ever made. He should have overpaid to keep Theo around and kept Tito as well. Ben single handedly set the org back 5 years with his bad drafting and IFA shenanigans. After a season and a half of bad baseball, Henry decided Ben's build from within approach didn't work (even though we saw additions of Xander, Mookie, JBJ, etc.). DD came in and used all the leftover assets to make a push to compete at the MLB level and ignore the farm. This blew up everything that Theo had originally built. Expecting Bloom to come in and fix the farm while competing was kind of foolish. The farm depth has gotten better, but the pitching is still a mess. I'm hopeful that Crag can push the pitching development forward and that the org is back to what it was in the Theo days.

    You're right, it's like Henry is bipolar or whatever. He just needs to stay out of it IMO. There are too many voices in the FO. Maybe that settles down now that it's Theo and Crag?
    Theo, later admitted that he and the organization had gotten away from their philosophy and were relying too much on FAs and trading prospects, his last 1-2 years.

    I'm not sure, if he realized that after leaving, of if he knew it, at the time. Also, what would he have done about it?

    He did leave a very nice core, so had he stayed, I can't imagine him doing any worse than Ben. I doubt he'd have pulled out all the stops, like DD.

    It appears I am not the only one doing some "what ifs..."
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  5. #8555
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Cook View Post
    If the budget is indeed 200 million, then we have a little tiny bit more to cut. This means trades are needed. Is bres-slow waiting for spring training injuries on other teams to unclog our outfield and find a starter or two?
    I think the budget is supposed to be 215M, or that is what was suggested.

    Cots has them at 190M as of today.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  6. #8556
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipre View Post
    If it doesn't, then Henry is definitely an idiot. He gave Theo *partnership stake* in a multi-billion dollar business conglomerate to basically come fix this mess. With the money he gave Theo, he better let him cook.
    I don't think Theo will be cooking, but letting Theo being the sounding board for Crag. Maybe Crag gets more of a chance to run with stuff and can work directly with Theo rather than having to worry about going to Henry? IDK. It's hard to know what the inner workings will be. I doubt Theo will be doing any day to day stuff aside from Executive Mgmt.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  7. #8557
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I don't think Theo will be cooking, but letting Theo being the sounding board for Crag. Maybe Crag gets more of a chance to run with stuff and can work directly with Theo rather than having to worry about going to Henry? IDK. It's hard to know what the inner workings will be. I doubt Theo will be doing any day to day stuff aside from Executive Mgmt.
    They need to cut Kennedy out of the decision loop. If they replace him with Theo, in that regard, it should help, but we still have too many hands on the handle stirring the pot.
    Sox 4 Ever

  8. #8558
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I don't think Theo will be cooking, but letting Theo being the sounding board for Crag. Maybe Crag gets more of a chance to run with stuff and can work directly with Theo rather than having to worry about going to Henry? IDK. It's hard to know what the inner workings will be. I doubt Theo will be doing any day to day stuff aside from Executive Mgmt.
    Merely by getting Henry to sign the checks and let Breslow do his job, he'll be cooking with lotsa seasoning.
    WAR is good for something.

  9. #8559
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Theo, later admitted that he and the organization had gotten away from their philosophy and were relying too much on FAs and trading prospects, his last 1-2 years.

    I'm not sure, if he realized that after leaving, of if he knew it, at the time. Also, what would he have done about it?

    He did leave a very nice core, so had he stayed, I can't imagine him doing any worse than Ben. I doubt he'd have pulled out all the stops, like DD.

    It appears I am not the only one doing some "what ifs..."
    After getting the 2nd WS, I think he started chasing the dragon. That 2007 team was home grown that included a trade for an ace pitcher for a prospect. I don't think he really got out of whack and it's really overstated what happened in 2011. I think some of the players just aged out and there were a few bad drafts 08-10. I think it was all fixable. Just signing Crawford wasn't the end of the world. Even trading for AGon is something that a big club like the Red Sox should be able to do. We saw that they were able to compete for a WS two years later with basically the same team and a few FA's. The next core was the 2011 draft class. Theo would have been fine. He just got in his head and probably needed Larry out of the equation.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  10. #8560
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    They need to cut Kennedy out of the decision loop. If they replace him with Theo, in that regard, it should help, but we still have too many hands on the handle stirring the pot.
    I don't think Sam makes any decisions. He's just the mouthpiece for Henry. Henry just isn't around, so he's there to play the telephone game for everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  11. #8561
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipre View Post
    Merely by getting Henry to sign the checks and let Breslow do his job, he'll be cooking with lotsa seasoning.
    None of us know what the budget is or why it is the way it is. Maybe Theo will be able to right that ship.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  12. #8562
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    After getting the 2nd WS, I think he started chasing the dragon. That 2007 team was home grown that included a trade for an ace pitcher for a prospect. I don't think he really got out of whack and it's really overstated what happened in 2011. I think some of the players just aged out and there were a few bad drafts 08-10. I think it was all fixable. Just signing Crawford wasn't the end of the world. Even trading for AGon is something that a big club like the Red Sox should be able to do. We saw that they were able to compete for a WS two years later with basically the same team and a few FA's. The next core was the 2011 draft class. Theo would have been fine. He just got in his head and probably needed Larry out of the equation.
    I think he viewed CC as excessive and going away from "the plan." I'm not sure he pulls off the Dodger dump trade, and who knows where we'd have been without it.
    Sox 4 Ever

  13. #8563
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I think he viewed CC as excessive and going away from "the plan." I'm not sure he pulls off the Dodger dump trade, and who knows where we'd have been without it.
    CC was fine. The signing just didn't work out. Excessive was signing Hanley AND Panda because it made no sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  14. #8564
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    CC was fine. The signing just didn't work out. Excessive was signing Hanley AND Panda because it made no sense.
    I think it was the CC signing that Theo was talking about, when he said they got away from their own philosophy.

    I did not like the signing. CC was a glorified platoon bat, as I called him, then.
    Sox 4 Ever

  15. #8565
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I think it was the CC signing that Theo was talking about, when he said they got away from their own philosophy.

    I did not like the signing. CC was a glorified platoon bat, as I called him, then.
    He should have been more glorified with a 2011 MVP award…

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