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Thread: 9/06 SOX @ Rays 6:40PM ET

  1. #106
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegasbob View Post
    There would be no point in "dumping" Dugo just to remove him from irritating everyone with his real or imagined motivational issues. The OF situation is getting overcrowded with a mishmash of vets and rookies, including some DH candidates.

    Yoshi is under contract for 4 more years ; Refsnyder could be moved but is otherwise under contract for 2024 ; Duran is under control therefore is movable ; Rafaela and Abreu are movable and should be factors in ST ; Duvall is a FA expressing interest in returning.

    Turner may or more likely may not return for 2024, possibly clearing the DH slot for Yoshi; Duvall may not get signed . That leaves 4 players plus Dugo for maximum 4 roster spots.

    Bloom needs to decide on Duvall ( probably passes) , and then can deal up to 2 of the Refsnyder, Dugo, Duran, Abreu and Rafaela group, along with another player for 1 mid range controllable starter . Of course Cedanne and Wilyer can also be parked at WooSox for awhile awaiting the inevitable injury opening. Dugo at least has a multi-year track record that another GM can better evaluate than the rookies. He will also cost a lot more in his final arb year.
    There are posters who have mentioned trading Dugo for equal return, perhaps at another position of higher need or maybe a RH'd OF bat. Dumping a very good player is not what anyone has suggested.

    He's also had some, let's call them, "attitude incidents."

    He's a good RF'er on D.
    He's a good hitter vs RHPs.
    He's got one year of control left.
    He has real value to us and to other teams.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    There are posters who have mentioned trading Dugo for equal return, perhaps at another position of higher need or maybe a RH'd OF bat. Dumping a very good player is not what anyone has suggested.

    He's also had some, let's call them, "attitude incidents."

    He's a good RF'er on D.
    He's a good hitter vs RHPs.
    He's got one year of control left.
    He has real value to us and to other teams.
    Not good enough. As the Talksox leading proponent for good Sox defense, you should have said Dugo is the only outfielder on this team with a plus DWAR. In fact, his +0.8 is the second best DWAR on the team after Wong's +1.7.

    You should be raving about his defense--which we have all seen has included a number of grabs and throws that prevented runs from scoring.

    With his OPS of .790, Dugo is also the only Sox regular who can in fact play defense and hit the dadgum ball. Everyone with with better offensive stats than Dugo has a negative freaking DWAR.

    If you really believe defense is important to winning games, you would be insisting Dugo is the only player on this team who is untradeable.

    Instead, you mention his attitude problem.

  3. #108
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Not good enough. As the Talksox leading proponent for good Sox defense, you should have said Dugo is the only outfielder on this team with a plus DWAR. In fact, his +0.8 is the second best DWAR on the team after Wong's +1.7.

    You should be raving about his defense--which we have all seen has included a number of grabs and throws that prevented runs from scoring.

    With his OPS of .790, Dugo is also the only Sox regular who can in fact play defense and hit the dadgum ball. Everyone with with better offensive stats than Dugo has a negative freaking DWAR.

    If you really believe defense is important to winning games, you would be insisting Dugo is the only player on this team who is untradeable.

    Instead, you mention his attitude problem.
    It's not about him not being a good player, though.

    1) He only has one year of control left. He'll be a free agent after 2024.
    2) Raffaela should be taking over center field next year. Duran can play right field instead of Verdugo. Yoshida is in left.
    3) We should get something of use in return.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It's not about him not being a good player, though.

    1) He only has one year of control left. He'll be a free agent after 2024.
    2) Raffaela should be taking over center field next year. Duran can play right field instead of Verdugo. Yoshida is in left.
    3) We should get something of use in return.
    Makes sense. I like Duvall and he has the arm for right field.

  5. #110
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Not good enough. As the Talksox leading proponent for good Sox defense, you should have said Dugo is the only outfielder on this team with a plus DWAR. In fact, his +0.8 is the second best DWAR on the team after Wong's +1.7.

    You should be raving about his defense--which we have all seen has included a number of grabs and throws that prevented runs from scoring.

    With his OPS of .790, Dugo is also the only Sox regular who can in fact play defense and hit the dadgum ball. Everyone with with better offensive stats than Dugo has a negative freaking DWAR.

    If you really believe defense is important to winning games, you would be insisting Dugo is the only player on this team who is untradeable.

    Instead, you mention his attitude problem.
    For one, I don't place total value on a player based on one good year of defense.
    I also don't value a player with one year as highly as one with 2, 3 or more.
    Yes, his OPS is .790. You act like 7th best is something we need to cling to.

    Again, I am not "for" trading Dugo, and I'm 200% against DUMPING him. I think Rafaela is a better defender. I think Duvall and Abreu may not be the downgrade on defense in RF, you seem to envision, and no, I don't use BR's dWAR to measure a player's value on D.

    I've already discussed how our defense should improve without needing to add anyone from outside the system, but I do see trading Dugo, among several other choices as a possible player we could trade in a package and try to improve our pitching- an area we both agree needs serious fixing.

    If we have to lose a little ground in RF to gain a lot of ground with teh staff, you'll say "It's not good enough.?".
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  6. #111
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    It's not about him not being a good player, though.

    1) He only has one year of control left. He'll be a free agent after 2024.
    2) Raffaela should be taking over center field next year. Duran can play right field instead of Verdugo. Yoshida is in left.
    3) We should get something of use in return.
    That's a bad defensive OF.

    Better yet....

    DH Yoshida
    LF Duran/Ref platoon
    CF Rafaela/Abreu (Duran 3rd)
    RF Duvall/Abreu (Ref 3rd)

    or, keep Dugo and trade Duran...
    DH: Yoshida
    LF: Abreu/Ref (Yoshida)
    CF: (Duvall?) Rafaela/Abreu
    RF: Dugo/Abreu (Duvall)
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Makes sense. I like Duvall and he has the arm for right field.
    Duran-Rafaela-Duvall makes more sense defensively if you’re moving Verdugo. But his one year of control does make him less attractive as a trade target for other teams. Plus he expressed a desire to stay in Boston.
    Last edited by notin; 09-08-2023 at 05:14 PM.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    For one, I don't place total value on a player based on one good year of defense.
    I also don't value a player with one year as highly as one with 2, 3 or more.
    Yes, his OPS is .790. You act like 7th best is something we need to cling to.

    Again, I am not "for" trading Dugo, and I'm 200% against DUMPING him. I think Rafaela is a better defender. I think Duvall and Abreu may not be the downgrade on defense in RF, you seem to envision, and no, I don't use BR's dWAR to measure a player's value on D.

    I've already discussed how our defense should improve without needing to add anyone from outside the system, but I do see trading Dugo, among several other choices as a possible player we could trade in a package and try to improve our pitching- an area we both agree needs serious fixing.

    If we have to lose a little ground in RF to gain a lot of ground with teh staff, you'll say "It's not good enough.?".
    Actually, as you well know, while I like defense, especially great defense, I value hitting a whole lot more. Same goes for pitching--way more valuable. Defense is a distant 3d.

  9. #114
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Actually, as you well know, while I like defense, especially great defense, I value hitting a whole lot more. Same goes for pitching--way more valuable. Defense is a distant 3d.
    Yes. We all know.

    I like all our good players, and wish we could keep them all.

    I wish they could all hit really well and defense real well.

    I wish we had enough pitchers who could pitch well enough to bring us another ring.

    Suggesting some trades that might help our staff is not about "dumping" good players or undervaluing them.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

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