9/8 Orioles at Fenway

[Old Red]

Houck was a known issue for a while but a lot of posters on here still wanted to roll him out there. I see him as trade bait.

I’ve been saying Houck, and Whit should have stayed in the pen for 2 years now, but they are cheap options for the rotation along with one of Blooms $10M man, and I think Bloom likes that.

[mvp 78]

I’ve been saying Houck, and Whit should have stayed in the pen for 2 years now, but they are cheap options for the rotation along with one of Blooms $10M man, and I think Bloom likes that.

I was hopeful that Whitlock could be a 3 because of his pitch mix, but his body just can’t do the wear and tear of starting. He’s relief only going forward IMO. If they yoyo him back to the rotation it’s a mistake.

[mvp 78]

If he's really good for 1-3 innings why would you trade him? It's pitching we need.

We have enough 3 inning guys to fill the roster. We need legitimate starters and Houck has trade value.

Houck is not significantly better than Murphy/Winck/Whitlock/Crawford. He’s expendable.

[Bellhorn04]

We have enough 3 inning guys to fill the roster. We need legitimate starters and Houck has trade value.

Houck is not significantly better than Murphy/Winck/Whitlock/Crawford. He’s expendable.

For 3 inning stints he's been better than those guys.

They're all expendable, though.

[moonslav59]

We have enough 3 inning guys to fill the roster. We need legitimate starters and Houck has trade value.

Houck is not significantly better than Murphy/Winck/Whitlock/Crawford. He’s expendable.

I agree.

I might also add Pivetta to this list, but he does not fall apart after 50 pitches or the third time through a line-up like Houck. (He's not as good over the first 50 pitches, either.) In his career, he does better 51-75 than 1-25.

1-25, 26-50, 51-75 pitches
Pivetta: .820, .697. .784
1st PA, 2nd... AS SP'er only
.769>,747>,870

Houck
By pitches: .644, .654, .920
By PAs: .626>,792>.938

Whitlock
Pitches: .692, .612, .831
PAs: .760>,692>1.122

Crawford 2023
Pitches: .617, .739, .760
PAs: .612>.820>1,159

I'm not sure if you can have an 8 man pen with 2 short guys and 6 long guys, but we have at least 4- 5 if you count Murphy.

[vegasbob]

The stats do tell a story on all of these 4 pitchers. The top of rotation types get stronger as the game progresses and their pitch mixes vary to keep hitters from timing them.

I do wonder as to what extent conditioning and pitch calling may have to do with their significant decline after 50 pitches. One thing they all have in common is pitching middle-middle and up in zone vs. commanding the corners. Also lack of a definitive 2 strike pitch to close out a batter.

[moonslav59]

The stats do tell a story on all of these 4 pitchers. The top of rotation types get stronger as the game progresses and their pitch mixes vary to keep hitters from timing them.

I do wonder as to what extent conditioning and pitch calling may have to do with their significant decline after 50 pitches. One thing they all have in common is pitching middle-middle and up in zone vs. commanding the corners. Also lack of a definitive 2 strike pitch to close out a batter.

I think it's a combination of conditioning and lack of extended repertoires. Some more of one than the other.

If we can't ever get these guys to go 75 pitches in a game, then we have to maximize their chances to do the best they can by not putting them in those situations, anymore.

I've been ringing the bell for adding two major studs at the TOTR, but in reality we probably need 2 plus some rotation depth to insure we never have to start Houck, Whitlock and probably Crawford, too. I think Pivetta can be handed the 5th slot, but we need more depth than Sale to make sure those 3 stay in the pen 100%. Sure, use them as openers, if needed, but never let them go beyond about 50 pitches or 18 batters- EVER!

SP1 FA
SP2 FA
SP3 Bello
SP4 FA
SP5 Pivetta & Sale
(Add SP ML ready depth to minor leagues)

Closer Jansen
Set Up Martin, Wink, Schreiber, Joely/Bernardino
Long Relief Houck, Crawford, Whitlock

Minor league depth:
SP: FA, FA, Gambrell, Hagenman, Wikelman, Drohan
SR: Kelly, Robertson, Guerrero, Mills
LR: Murphy, Walter, Van Belle, Song