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Thread: 9/12 Yankems @ SOX 7:10PM ET

  1. #76
    El mar no cesa iortiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I understand this sentence, but did have a serious concussion from a sledding accident back in high school where I lost half of a day.

    The "meat in the oven" may be an analogy that is not common to us, but is common to iortiz. I get what he's trying to say though.
    LOL my bad, seems like it is a only a slang in Mexico.

    "Putting all the meat in the oven" basically means (to us) that you put all your best resources in play in order to win.
    Tiburones Rojos de Veracruz & Boston Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    In the words of Don Corleone when he slaps a crying Johnny Fontaine: "Act like a man!" No, offense ladies.

  2. #77
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iortiz View Post
    LOL my bad, seems like it is a only a slang in Mexico.

    "Putting all the meat in the oven" basically means (to us) that you put all your best resources in play in order to win.
    No, I figured it out. No issue with me!
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  3. #78
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    It is incredibly frustrating to see high paid ball players like Story and Duval striking out
    over and over again and swinging at balls two feet off the plate.

    Meanwhile rookies like Rafaela, Abreu, and Casas have much better plate discipline and one feels they will at least
    make decent contact. When Casas or Turner strike out is because the pitcher is really good or because the umpire screwed them.

    Another one that disappoints with swing at bad pitches is Wong, but he is the catcher.

  4. #79
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    double post

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post
    Fallen behind by a big 1 run, but as inept as the Sox bats were yesterday I guess Cora thought the game was out of reach, so I guess it was the right move. Like I said yesterday I donít care if the Red Sox were playing 10 games yesterday you donít have the luxury of time anymore to be saving for anything.
    My take is that overall the bullpen did a good job yesterday and that Cora's decisions were borderline prescient.

    Your chief complaint seems to be Cora waiting too long to pull Pivetta.

    But Illinoisox has pointed out that things happened too quickly in the 6th inning to have any chance of warming up a reliever in time. Specifically, the first two baserunners--an HBP followed by a single--were on base after just 3 pitches, which was much too soon to get someone on the mound for the 3d batter.

    And the third batter, LeMahieu, was the guy who made the biggest difference with the double that brought in 1 run and put runners on 2d and 3d with no one out. Then Judge flied out with no one one scoring. However, Torres then hit a ground ball single to right to bring home the Yankees 2d and 3d runs. Pivetta walked Stanton before Llovera came in to get the final two outs with no more Yankees runs scored.

    And the Yankees won 3-2 because the Sox couldn't score a run after their 2 runs in the 4th. It's perhaps worth noting that the 2d Sox run was from a Casas double, a grounder moving him to 3d base, and a wild pitch bringing him home. Casas does not score without that WP because the next batter walked and then Rafaela flied out for the third out.

    So, basically, you and others are pissed at Cora for sending Pivetta out to pitch the 6th when he'd thrown just 70 pitches and had a seamless (3 up, 3 down) 5th inning.

    And you deliberately downplay the fact that the Sox collective lineups for the doubleheader drove in 1 run in game 1 and another run in game 2.

    Cora is not the problem for this year's Sox. He was terrific in the 2018 season, the single best Sox season ever, and pretty terrific in the 2021 season when the Sox were without a bunch of the stalwarts from the 2018 team--Sale, Price, Porcello, Kimbrel, Mookie, Benintendi, JBJ, Holt, Moreland, et al.

    In fact, I would argue that the 2016 and 2017 teams both had more talent than the 2021 Sox team, but they didn't have Cora managing and were smacked down in the ALDS, 3 games to 0 both years. The 2021 Sox had no closer for the postseason, but still beat the Yankees in the wild card and the 100 win Rays in the ALDS, 3 games to 1, before losing to the Astros in the ALCS.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    My take is that overall the bullpen did a good job yesterday and that Cora's decisions were borderline prescient.

    Your chief complaint seems to be Cora waiting too long to pull Pivetta.

    But Illinoisox has pointed out that things happened too quickly in the 6th inning to have any chance of warming up a reliever in time. Specifically, the first two baserunners--an HBP followed by a single--were on base after just 3 pitches, which was much too soon to get someone on the mound for the 3d batter.

    And the third batter, LeMahieu, was the guy who made the biggest difference with the double that brought in 1 run and put runners on 2d and 3d with no one out. Then Judge flied out with no one one scoring. However, Torres then hit a ground ball single to right to bring home the Yankees 2d and 3d runs. Pivetta walked Stanton before Llovera came in to get the final two outs with no more Yankees runs scored.

    And the Yankees won 3-2 because the Sox couldn't score a run after their 2 runs in the 4th. It's perhaps worth noting that the 2d Sox run was from a Casas double, a grounder moving him to 3d base, and a wild pitch bringing him home. Casas does not score without that WP because the next batter walked and then Rafaela flied out for the third out.

    So, basically, you and others are pissed at Cora for sending Pivetta out to pitch the 6th when he'd thrown just 70 pitches and had a seamless (3 up, 3 down) 5th inning.

    And you deliberately downplay the fact that the Sox collective lineups for the doubleheader drove in 1 run in game 1 and another run in game 2.

    Cora is not the problem for this year's Sox. He was terrific in the 2018 season, the single best Sox season ever, and pretty terrific in the 2021 season when the Sox were without a bunch of the stalwarts from the 2018 team--Sale, Price, Porcello, Kimbrel, Mookie, Benintendi, JBJ, Holt, Moreland, et al.

    In fact, I would argue that the 2016 and 2017 teams both had more talent than the 2021 Sox team, but they didn't have Cora managing and were smacked down in the ALDS, 3 games to 0 both years. The 2021 Sox had no closer for the postseason, but still beat the Yankees in the wild card and the 100 win Rays in the ALDS, 3 games to 1, before losing to the Astros in the ALCS.
    No my chief complaint was bringing in LL first when I thought there was better options.Cora was terrific in 2018, because he had a powerful lineup to manage. I’m very well aware the Red Sox only scored 3 runs in 18 innings yesterday, but that doesn’t change my complaint. Your No Name offense sucked yesterday, and on that we agree.
    Last edited by Old Red; 09-13-2023 at 01:03 PM.

  7. #82
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    The Sox were 0/19 with runners in scoring position.
    The major league record record is 0/20

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post
    No my chief complaint was bringing in LL first when I thought there was better options.Cora was terrific in 2018, because he had a powerful lineup to manage. I’m very well aware the Red Sox only scored 3 runs in 18 innings yesterday, but that doesn’t change my complaint. Your No Name offense sucked yesterday, and on that we agree.
    If Llovera was your only complaint, why not give Cora credit for using him successfully?

    Indeed, when Llovera entered the game, the score was 3-2, which was the final score of the game. Bravo, Cora!

    Also, why do you ignore Cora's managing in the 2021 season? I think it was maybe better than in 2018.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    If Llovera was your only complaint, why not give Cora credit for using him successfully?

    Indeed, when Llovera entered the game, the score was 3-2, which was the final score of the game. Bravo, Cora!

    Also, why do you ignore Cora's managing in the 2021 season? I think it was maybe better than in 2018.
    LL worked out, and thatís the best Iíll say. If Cora is the reason the Red Sox were good in 2018, and 2021 then he must be the reason they have sucked the last two years. Doc Rivers went from having the worst record in the NBA one year with the Celtics to the best record, and a Championship a year later. Same coach, but different players, and different results. The Red Sox didnít win in 2018, because of Cora, and they havenít sucked the last two years just because of Cora.

  10. #85
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    If Llovera was your only complaint, why not give Cora credit for using him successfully?

    Indeed, when Llovera entered the game, the score was 3-2, which was the final score of the game. Bravo, Cora!

    Also, why do you ignore Cora's managing in the 2021 season? I think it was maybe better than in 2018.
    Because Cora never ever deserves credit if things go well, but deserves all of the blame when shit hits the fan.
    WAR is good for something.

  11. #86
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipre View Post
    Because Cora never ever deserves credit if things go well, but deserves all of the blame when shit hits the fan.
    The only players that can be blamed are Story for striking out and Devers for making errors. Everything else is on Cora.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    The only players that can be blamed are Story for striking out and Devers for making errors. Everything else is on Cora.
    Kike for making errors, Casas for making errors, Masa for being a bad LF, Duvall for striking out just to name a few.

  13. #88
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Kike ain't here no more.
    WAR is good for something.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Red View Post
    LL worked out, and that’s the best I’ll say. If Cora is the reason the Red Sox were good in 2018, and 2021 then he must be the reason they have sucked the last two years. Doc Rivers went from having the worst record in the NBA one year with the Celtics to the best record, and a Championship a year later. Same coach, but different players, and different results. The Red Sox didn’t win in 2018, because of Cora, and they haven’t sucked the last two years just because of Cora.
    While I agree the players make a huge difference and managers are hired to be fired, I do think some managers, including Sox managers, are better than other managers.

    JH has the final say in hiring and firing managers, but he's always had a pretty good brain trust to help him in hiring/firing a total of 6 managers:

    Grady Little (a subpar manager fired after the 2003 season almost certainly for leaving Pedro in too long in the ALCS; the Dodgers also fired him after 2 seasons);

    Terry Francona (excellent manager fired after 8 good seasons, 2004-11, including 2 WS wins, but had to go after the 2011 September collapse plus players drinking beer during games);

    Bobby Valentine (one season mistake in 2012);

    John Farrell (5 seasons, 2013-17, 1 WS in 2013, let go after 2 good teams, 2016 and 2017, stunk in the postseason);

    Alex Cora (5 seasons, suspended in 2020 but hired back immediately afterward, 1 WS and best Sox season ever, 1 ALCS season in 2021 without Sale, Price, Mookie, Kimbrel, Beni, etc, 2 bad seasons, 2022 and 2023, but with the lowest salary rankings in the John Henry era).

    From the above I conclude Terry Francona and Alex Cora are easily the two best of six managers if we include Ron Roenicke in the 2020 season. But, while I prefer Cora, I think Francona's record is far better because he's been excellent in Boston and Cleveland.

    However, of the six managers, only Cora has been asked to do "more with less," which has been going on since the 2019 season.
    Last edited by Maxbialystock; 09-13-2023 at 03:58 PM.

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