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Thread: 6/17 RED Sox in the Great White North, near Niagra Falls but actually Toronto

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Even paying 80-90% of what's owed might not get a taker, but I'd try.
    With Sale, Story, and Masa one can understand perhaps why JH isn't jumping at large contracts.
    And that's not counting the Pablo's, the Crawford's and the Price's. Who else am I leaving out?
    Last edited by SPLENDIDSPLINTER; 06-17-2024 at 09:46 PM.

  2. #62
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPLENDIDSPLINTER View Post
    With Sale, Story, and Masa one can understand perhaps why JH isn't jumping at large contracts.
    And that's not counting the Pablo's, the Crawford's and the Price's. Who else am I leaving out?
    HRam
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    When you say it's gonna happen now
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPLENDIDSPLINTER View Post
    With Sale, Story, and Masa one can understand perhaps why JH isn't jumping at large contracts.
    And that's not counting the Pablo's, the Crawford's and the Price's. Who else am I leaving out?
    That's become my refrain, and it's supported by the fact that the 1st, 3d, and 6th highest payrolls--the Mets, Astros, and Rangers--all have losing records. The Sox payroll is 11th. And well below the Sox the 20th, 25th, and 26th highest payrolls--the Royals, Orioles, and Guardians--all have winning records.

    Letting Sale go to the Braves was a mistake, granted, especially with the Sox paying $17M of his salary. But in fact his replacement, Houck, is having a better season, and so far the Sox pitching this year is better than, wait for it, the 2018 Sox. That is, the ERA is lower this year than in 2018.

    We lost Mookie to the Dodgers, but right now Duran's WAR, 3.8, is just as good, and he is paid 1/40th of what Mookie is paid.

    Story's defense is missed, but not his bat. Grissom is not missed. Giolito is not missed

  4. #64
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    WORLD CHAMPION BOSTON CELTICS!!! Now that’s enjoyable, and fun.

  5. #65
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    Story's defense is missed, but not his bat. Grissom is not missed. Giolito is not missed
    We seriously miss Story's bat & glove.

    We seriously miss Gio.

    We could have used the Grissom of 2022.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    We seriously miss Story's bat & glove.

    We seriously miss Gio.

    We could have used the Grissom of 2022.
    I can't seriously miss something I never had. The Red Sox never had Story's Silver Slugger bat from Colorado or Giolito's Cy Young (votes worthy) arm from Chicago.

    Price and Lackey were never All-Stars, nor received Cy votes while in Boston, either. Martinez, Porcello and Sale were, and did.

    I can say I miss the extended opportunities to see if Story's bat and Giolito's arm could reclaim past glories from before they were Red Sox.

    Grissom is entirely different, as he's never been a big league regular or star -- yet. However, until/if he is, he'll always be unproven. He may not be Dalbec, but both guys starred at the same level in the same season, just last year... below the majors.

  7. #67
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    We could have used the Grissom of 2022.
    The Grissom of August 10/22-September 7/22.

    FTFY
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

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  8. #68
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5GoldGloves:OF,75 View Post
    I can't seriously miss something I never had.
    When the guys you play, instead are worse than replacement level, you can still miss someone.

    Gio's replacements have not been that, but we could still have used Gio at his norm.

    We can't assume anything about just about any player, and I certainly don't automatically assume Story would continue at .681, like he has since joining the Sox.

    I will say, .681 and his superior defense makes him an improvement over every other SS we have played since Bogey left after 2022.

    DHam has really come on strong, and I get Max's point about not missing him, of late, but Story still is tied in bWAR and tfWAR at SS.
    fWAR
    0.7 Story (1.0 bWAR) & DHam (1.0 bWAR)
    0.3 Reyes
    0.2 Romy & Chang
    0.0 Rafaela
    -1.1 Kike

    The real kicker is Story at 2B:
    fWAR since 2022
    2.5 Story
    0.6 Arroyo
    0.1 Urias
    0.0 DHam
    -0.1 Downs, Turner, EValdez
    -0.2 Reyes
    -0.3 Kike & Sanchez
    -0.8 Grissom

    In terms of overall middle IF value, even playing as little as he has, Story is second only to Bogey since 2022. We all know his big value skill is his D, but look at out MI OPS since 2022 (500+ PAs, unless noted)
    .833 Bogey
    .749 Westbrook 24
    .717 Romy 42
    .710 DHam 191
    .698 Urias 109
    .696 Arroyo
    .681 Story
    .669 Rafaela 356 (mostly CF)
    .647 Reyes 249
    .615 Kike (most MI PAs on the Sox at 725)
    .564 Chang 138
    .427 Downs 41
    .367 Grissom 87
    .322 Y Sanchez 44

    I'd love to see Story at SS w DHam & Romy/Valdez at 2B. IMO, we miss him.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
    When exactly do you mean?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    When the guys you play, instead are worse than replacement level, you can still miss someone.

    Gio's replacements have not been that, but we could still have used Gio at his norm.

    We can't assume anything about just about any player, and I certainly don't automatically assume Story would continue at .681, like he has since joining the Sox.

    I will say, .681 and his superior defense makes him an improvement over every other SS we have played since Bogey left after 2022.

    DHam has really come on strong, and I get Max's point about not missing him, of late, but Story still is tied in bWAR and tfWAR at SS.
    fWAR
    0.7 Story (1.0 bWAR) & DHam (1.0 bWAR)
    0.3 Reyes
    0.2 Romy & Chang
    0.0 Rafaela
    -1.1 Kike

    The real kicker is Story at 2B:
    fWAR since 2022
    2.5 Story
    0.6 Arroyo
    0.1 Urias
    0.0 DHam
    -0.1 Downs, Turner, EValdez
    -0.2 Reyes
    -0.3 Kike & Sanchez
    -0.8 Grissom

    In terms of overall middle IF value, even playing as little as he has, Story is second only to Bogey since 2022. We all know his big value skill is his D, but look at out MI OPS since 2022 (500+ PAs, unless noted)
    .833 Bogey
    .749 Westbrook 24
    .717 Romy 42
    .710 DHam 191
    .698 Urias 109
    .696 Arroyo
    .681 Story
    .669 Rafaela 356 (mostly CF)
    .647 Reyes 249
    .615 Kike (most MI PAs on the Sox at 725)
    .564 Chang 138
    .427 Downs 41
    .367 Grissom 87
    .322 Y Sanchez 44

    I'd love to see Story at SS w DHam & Romy/Valdez at 2B. IMO, we miss him.
    To me it's this simple. Without Story in 2021, the Sox made it to the postseason and in fact the ALCS. With Story in 2022 and 2023, the Sox went nowhere. And this year, once again without Story, the Sox are looking pretty decent.

    Without Story in 2021, the Sox finished 5th in MLB in runs scored. With Story in 2022 and 2023, the Sox finished 9th and 11th in runs scored. This year without Story the Sox are again just 9th in scoring, but appear to be heading upward--and that's without Bogey, Kike, JDM, Renfroe but instead with a whole bunch of newbies in the lineup.

    Story's lifetime OPS is .834. That, along with his good defense, is what the Sox are paying for and definitely not getting. And by not getting I mean both the lower OPS and all the missed games. In 3 seasons so far, the Sox have gotten less from Story than what the Rockies got in his last season.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    The Grissom of August 10/22-September 7/22.

    FTFY
    We got Grissom for Sale, who is the Braves ace and $17M of whose salary the Sox are paying. Trading Grissom for Sale was monumentally stupid. The Sox apparently fell in love with Grissom when he hit his first ever dinger in Fenway Park two years ago.

  11. #71
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    To me it's this simple. Without Story in 2021, the Sox made it to the postseason and in fact the ALCS. With Story in 2022 and 2023, the Sox went nowhere. And this year, once again without Story, the Sox are looking pretty decent.

    Without Story in 2021, the Sox finished 5th in MLB in runs scored. With Story in 2022 and 2023, the Sox finished 9th and 11th in runs scored. This year without Story the Sox are again just 9th in scoring, but appear to be heading upward--and that's without Bogey, Kike, JDM, Renfroe but instead with a whole bunch of newbies in the lineup.

    Story's lifetime OPS is .834. That, along with his good defense, is what the Sox are paying for and definitely not getting. And by not getting I mean both the lower OPS and all the missed games. In 3 seasons so far, the Sox have gotten less from Story than what the Rockies got in his last season.
    Teams win all the time, despite having shitty players at certain positions or not having someone due to injury.

    There is no way in hell, I see anyone as being batter than Story at SS or 2B- not DHam, not Romy, not Valdez and not Westbrook.

    We'd be a better team with Story, even if he kept hitting .681, which I do not concede would be his projected OPS.
    When you say it's gonna happen now
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  12. #72
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    We got Grissom for Sale, who is the Braves ace and $17M of whose salary the Sox are paying. Trading Grissom for Sale was monumentally stupid. The Sox apparently fell in love with Grissom when he hit his first ever dinger in Fenway Park two years ago.
    40% of a season, while the Sox have five more years of control of Grissom, and Sale has plenty of opportunity to, as he had done the past 5 seasons, get injured.
    WAR is good for something.

  13. #73
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipre View Post
    40% of a season, while the Sox have five more years of control of Grissom, and Sale has plenty of opportunity to, as he had done the past 5 seasons, get injured.
    Buzzard tears will be shed if he doesn't.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

  14. #74
    CEO of the Casas Fan Club Dipre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Buzzard tears will be shed if he doesn't.
    He could have a Cy Young season and the Sox could still come out ahead in this trade value-wise. Point is, we just won't know for a while.
    WAR is good for something.

  15. #75
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipre View Post
    He could have a Cy Young season and the Sox could still come out ahead in this trade value-wise. Point is, we just won't know for a while.
    I know, but waiting 5 years is some really boring shit.
    Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1

    The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.

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