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Thread: Official NBA thread

  1. #6736
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonbay44 View Post
    There's also offense, the most important part of the game. He was bigger and more athletic than most players back then, and still only shot 44% from the field for his career.
    You say offense is the most important, because nobody plays D anymore. One could argue "era" here, too.

    Did LeBron and Jordon blow away the next best offensive players by all that much? If it's all about offense, then why not Wilt? (He got over 18 rebounds/gm every season he ever played.) Wilt's career line: 30.1 pts/gm/ 22.9 reb/ 4.4 Ast. BTW, he led the NBA in FG% nine time. How often have Jordan & James led the league--combined?

    What's the criteria?

    Sure, one can argue Russell & Chamberlain were men playing among boys, but that just proves how dominating they both were.

    Yes, the game has changed, but dominating is dominating, and to me the best should be based on who dominated the most.

    Rings and numbers matter. Getting the most out of your teammates matter. Intelligence, savvy and instincts matter. Yes, the 15 points per game hurts Russell's case, buy I think he could have scored more had they needed him to. I'm pretty sure 22-23 rebounds led to a lot of added points by someone.

  2. #6737
    I don't think its the fact no one plays defense anymore, I think its the fact the players are just so much more athletic, stronger and faster. imagine a guy like Russell westbrook or john wall playing back then. they are missles of speed and strength, they really aren't guardable man to man. and everyone in the nba now is so damn good at shooting that if they beat one man, and another tries to help, you can guarantee the teammate is banging the open three.

  3. #6738
    bill Russell at 6'9 was considered a man among boys as a center. LeBron is 6'8 and plays point guard. the league has changed, the talent is WAY better. if you put deandre Jordan, andre Drummond or Dwight howard on those 60's Celtics teams, they have 11 rings.

  4. #6739
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    You say offense is the most important, because nobody plays D anymore. One could argue "era" here, too.

    Did LeBron and Jordon blow away the next best offensive players by all that much? If it's all about offense, then why not Wilt? (He got over 18 rebounds/gm every season he ever played.) Wilt's career line: 30.1 pts/gm/ 22.9 reb/ 4.4 Ast. BTW, he led the NBA in FG% nine time. How often have Jordan & James led the league--combined?

    What's the criteria?

    Sure, one can argue Russell & Chamberlain were men playing among boys, but that just proves how dominating they both were.

    Yes, the game has changed, but dominating is dominating, and to me the best should be based on who dominated the most.

    Rings and numbers matter. Getting the most out of your teammates matter. Intelligence, savvy and instincts matter. Yes, the 15 points per game hurts Russell's case, buy I think he could have scored more had they needed him to. I'm pretty sure 22-23 rebounds led to a lot of added points by someone.
    Nobody plays defense anymore? More like the rules make it harder to play defense, and there is just way more talent in the league than ever before. Big men alone in today's league have so much talent and different skill set that is ridiculous. Andre Drummond, Clint Capela, Dwight Howard, Rudy Gobert, Nikola Jokic, Demarcus Cousins, LMA, Anthony Davis, KAT, Blake Griffin, Deandre Jordan, Marc Gasol, Kevin Love, Joel Embiid, Steven Adams, Porzingis, Horford, Whiteside, Kanter, etc.

    Russell is great, and has great stats sure, but you are literally comparing a time with 10 teams in the league, where the Celtics were beyond stacked with hall of famers, to a league where there is 30 teams, with much more talent and a changed game. Bill Russells lack of offensive talent would be taken advantage of in todays game. There is a reason someone like Ben Wallace wasn't a star.Bill

    This is why comparing these eras is nearly impossible and pretty pointless. You will never convince me that Bill Russell and his mid 40's shooting %'s are the greatest player of all time, and I'm not going to convince you Duncan, Shaq and etc are better.
    Last edited by Jasonbay44; 06-26-2018 at 08:31 PM.

  5. #6740
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Yes, there's more to the game....like 20+ rebounds and maybe the best defense ever played by any human ever born.

    Plus, I brought up Russell in the context of everyone calling Brady the best as a result of him having 5 rings.

    Many feel Jordon is better than LeBron due to the rings.

    I'm getting mixed messages on what the criteria is for judging who is the best or who at least belongs in the conversation.

    If I had to narrow it to 4, it would be....

    Russell

    Chamberlain

    Jordon

    James

    I'd probably put the Big O 5th, but maybe I'm biased.
    You make sense.

    But then you saw the man play.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  6. #6741
    im being honest. ive watchined numerous documentaries, highlights and etc of Russell, I don't get it.

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...817A&FORM=VIRE
    hes blocking layups of guys hes way taller than, he literally blocks #25 on 76ers shot without even jumping. a majority of the highlights of him are uncontested dunks and layups. his offensive game is bad, and he took advantage of a weak league. I would love to see him in todays game, but we cant, so he isn't being ranked high by me.

  7. #6742
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonbay44 View Post
    I personally have Kareem and Shaq over Duncan (I just think they were more dominant players in their primes), but I can see the argument for Duncan and he gets severely underrated as an all time great most the time in these "GOAT" discussions.
    Shaq didn't start giving a shit about defense and intangibles until it was too late. He had a good run in 99-00 and 00-01, then he turned 30 and hurt his toe and it was downhill from there.

    Kareem gets points off for only winning two championships as the best player on his team, and even 1980 might be arguable. His prime was in the 70s - not like there was stiff competition or some incumbent dynasty he had to break through.

    Duncan was the best player and the leader on five championship teams and was the best defensive player in the game for a good nine years - in the modern era. His scoring numbers aren't quite up there compared to Shaq or Kareem, but unlike Russell he had an offensive game and wasn't just limited to fast breaks and cleanups. There's a reason the Spurs won at least 50 games in 18 of Duncan's 19 seasons (that one outlier season is the '99 lockout, and the team's winning percentage that year is equivalent to that of a 60-win team).
    Last edited by Jacoby_Ellsbury; 06-27-2018 at 09:13 AM.

  8. #6743
    It is clearly generational and if you never saw these guys really play, you have no idea what they could or could not do. For starters, anyone who thinks that Russell could not play on the offensive end, really could not have seen him play. Russell scored when he needed to which really wasn't that often. As much as it pains me to say, Chamberlain certainly has to be included in the conversation. From a simply athletic standpoint, I really have to say that I haven't seen a player yet comparable to him in any generation even though I did not like him.

  9. #6744
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Yes, there's more to the game....like 20+ rebounds and maybe the best defense ever played by any human ever born.

    Plus, I brought up Russell in the context of everyone calling Brady the best as a result of him having 5 rings.

    Many feel Jordon is better than LeBron due to the rings.

    I'm getting mixed messages on what the criteria is for judging who is the best or who at least belongs in the conversation.

    If I had to narrow it to 4, it would be....

    Russell

    Chamberlain

    Jordon

    James

    I'd probably put the Big O 5th, but maybe I'm biased.
    I like your list even though comparing players from different generations really is impossible. Of course I would add John Havlicek to the list.

  10. #6745
    So it seems Danny is going to sign Baynes to a 2/11 contract.

    Another smart move by Ainge.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  11. #6746
    Did the Warriors really just sign Demarcus Cousins too? This is getting fucking ridiculous.

  12. #6747
    $5.3M/1 yr.

    The fix is in.

  13. #6748
    Aside from the shock value of Cousins being a big name, this isn't that big a deal. Cousins is Al Jefferson with a three-point shot. He is not effective without the ball in his hands. He's not going to have the ball in his hands with Curry, Thompson, and Durant on the team. The guy can't defend, can't set good screens, and is hardly ever in the right position on either end of the floor. His role will basically be reduced to a spot-up three point shooting big man.

  14. #6749
    What is Magic up to?

    He signs Rondo to play with Lebron while the Lakers already have a poor shooting point guard.

    This Williams kid is off to a bad start in Boston.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  15. #6750
    Looks like the Raptors are being idiots. Not a big surprise though.

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