Official NBA thread

[Spudboy]

Lol.

Bill Russell won more championships than both of those guys combined.

[moonslav59]

If Brady is the all time best because of all the rings, then Bill Russell is the best major team sport, pro athlete of all time.

1955 NCAA championship
1956 NCAA championship (55 straight wins)
20.7 points per game/20.3 rebounds per game college career
1956 Olympic Gold Medal (USA won by 53/5 pts/gm)
56-57 NBA championship
57-58 Lost championship
58-59 NBA championship
59-60 NBA championship
60-61 NBA championship
61-62 NBA championship
62-63 NBA championship
63-64 NBA championship
64-65 NBA championship
65-66 NBA championship
66-67 Lost in East Div Finals
67-68 NBA championship
68-69 NBA championship

That's 14 championships or Gold Medals in 15 years!

Holy Shit!!!!!!!!

[moonslav59]

Back to Brady and his 5 rings.

Not many people know that Bart Starr has 5 NFL championships.

1960 Lost championship game (his first full season as starting QB)
1961 Championship
1962 Championship
1963 11-2-1 no championship
1964 8-5-1 no championship
1965 Championship
1966 Championship (Super Bowl)
1967 Championship (Super Bowl)

5 championships in 7 years with one loss in the championship game before these 7 years.

[moonslav59]

Oscar Robertson just won the NBA Lifetime Achievement Award.

Many remember that he averaged a triple double his 2nd year and revolutionized the "positionless" basketball player.

More amazingly, he averaged a triple double over his first 6 seasons combined! He nearly did it for his first 7 seasons.

Here's a look at his numbers:

Pts Reb Ast Led league in bold
30.5 10.1 9.7
30.8 12.5 11.4
28.3 10.4 9.5
31.4 9.9 11.0
30.4 9.0 11.5
31.3 7.7 11.1
30.5 6.2 10.7
29.2 6.0 9.7
24.7 6.4 9.8
25.3 6.1 8.1
19.4 5.7 8.2
17.4 5.0 7.7 NBA championship
(2 more years)

First 3 years: 29.8/ 11.0/ 10.2

First 4 years: 30.2/ 10.7/ 10.4

First 5 years: 30.3/ 10.4/ 10.6

First 6 years: 30.5/ 10.0/ 10.7

First 7 years: 29.7/ 9.4/ 10.7

[Jasonbay44]

Russell also played in an era where there was only what? 10 teams? Plus he was on a dynasty Celtics team that had 8 hall of famers. The league had weird shit going on back then. There was a guy averaging 50 PPG and 25+ RPG in seasons... I don't even know how you can legit argue Russell over Lebron and Jordan. I know its different eras, but lets be real now.

[Jasonbay44]

I give Jordan decisive bonus points for playing in an era when hand-checkng was still allowed. That’s the deciding factor for me. To me Lebron is a cross-between Karl Malone and Scottie Pippen playing in a league with no hand-checking. There are other factors to my opinion, but they’re less important. It’s not a great comparison either, position wise. To me, I considered Jordan 1, 2, and/or 3, while Lebron’s mainly a 3 and/or 4 (who doesn’t post-up nearly enough imo). That’s not to say Jordan NEVER posted-up or that Lebron NEVER ran offenseive plays acting as a guard. I’m just speaking in general. Predominantly. Other things I consider are: 1) I think the competion was overall greater when the Bulls were rattling off championships. 2) The Bulls were well coached, but they were never considered an exogenous group of superstars. Meaning, Jordan never had to “take his talents to S. Beach” as it were, to win a championship. 3) Who wears who’s number? ... yeah, I thought so.

Anyways, Lebron is great. The greatest of his generation I would say.

I mean I don't disagree with some of the points, and don't really get caught up in the Jordan/Lebron debates, they're both great players, and are 1 and 2 all time for me, but I don't think the competition was better during Jordan's time. He made the playoffs one year going 30-52, and Lebron in the finals is playing one of the greatest dynasties of all time, a team that is so stacked that it has arguably the two greatest shooters of all time, a multi time scoring champ/MVP in Kevin Durant, arguably the best defensive player in the league Draymond, and this isn't even accounting for their incredibly stacked bench. Andre Iguodala is their 6th man and he is a multi time all star and won a finals MVP for this team. Plus this era has had the Lakers dynasty with Kobe, Duncan/Pop Spurs, big three Celtics, etc.

[moonslav59]

Russell also played in an era where there was only what? 10 teams? Plus he was on a dynasty Celtics team that had 8 hall of famers. The league had weird shit going on back then. There was a guy averaging 50 PPG and 25+ RPG in seasons... I don't even know how you can legit argue Russell over Lebron and Jordan. I know its different eras, but lets be real now.

His college championships in the context of all the crap he and other black players had to go through should not be minimized by the "era" argument.

Plus, the Celtics had not won any championships before Russell got there. He was the ultimate "team player" and made everyone around him better. The Celtice didn't even make the playoffs the first two years after Russell retired. Russell went out a winner. His last two champiosnhip seasons were his last two in the league. AND, he was also THE COACH!!!!!!

I'm not so sure there's be so many Celtic HOF'ers had Bill never been traded to the Celtics.

(BTW, I'm not a Celtic fan, but BR has to be mentioned in the conversation of the best of all time.

Jordon, James, Russell, Johnson, Chamberlain, Robertson & Jabbar.

That's my big 7.

(Bird, Erving, Mikan, Olajuwan real, real close)

[Jasonbay44]

I was only talking about his NBA career, not his college career. He's definitely in the top 10, but there is no way I even have him near the conversation as top 2 with Jordan/Lebron. There is more to the game than rings especially in the difference of eras. Obviously all these lists are just opinions.

Also I wasn't trying to minimize the off the court bullshit he had to deal with at the time, that wasn't my point about his era.

[Emp9]

I mean I don't disagree with some of the points, and don't really get caught up in the Jordan/Lebron debates, they're both great players, and are 1 and 2 all time for me, but I don't think the competition was better during Jordan's time. He made the playoffs one year going 30-52, and Lebron in the finals is playing one of the greatest dynasties of all time, a team that is so stacked that it has arguably the two greatest shooters of all time, a multi time scoring champ/MVP in Kevin Durant, arguably the best defensive player in the league Draymond, and this isn't even accounting for their incredibly stacked bench. Andre Iguodala is their 6th man and he is a multi time all star and won a finals MVP for this team. Plus this era has had the Lakers dynasty with Kobe, Duncan/Pop Spurs, big three Celtics, etc.

I wasn’t talking about better competition in just the playoffs or championship games. I think, and it could very well be just my opinion, but even regular season... league-wide, better competition.

[mvp 78]

Really hard to compare vastly different eras though.

Jordan is best all time and as much as it pains me to say it, Lebron is probably second.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Russell didn't have an offensive game. He got his points on rebounds and breakaway dunks, but he could not create his own opportunities on that end of the foor. Too incomplete to be the best ever. He may well be the best defensive player of all time, though.

Jordan is the absolute best. Six rings, two threepeats, insane scoring averages, and for a good six years (87-93) he was the best offensive and the best defensive player in the game. Not merely the best overall, but the actual best in the business on both sides of the ball. I've never seen a LeBron-over-Jordan argument that wasn't just a barrage of excuses or petty qualifiers that begin with the phrase "you have to understand", or some soliloquy about what a great guy* LeBron is and what a pooface Jordan is (because that totally matters).

Jordan is #1, LeBron is #2, Tim Duncan is #3 and LeBron is a lot closer to Duncan than he is to Jordan. Actually the more I think about it the more I wonder if Duncan should be #2.

*He's actually a flighty, two-faced shit who owes his entire empire to the PR team that created and maintains this winsome public image for him.

[Jasonbay44]

I personally have Kareem and Shaq over Duncan (I just think they were more dominant players in their primes), but I can see the argument for Duncan and he gets severely underrated as an all time great most the time in these "GOAT" discussions.

[moonslav59]

I was only talking about his NBA career, not his college career. He's definitely in the top 10, but there is no way I even have him near the conversation as top 2 with Jordan/Lebron. There is more to the game than rings especially in the difference of eras. Obviously all these lists are just opinions.

Also I wasn't trying to minimize the off the court bullshit he had to deal with at the time, that wasn't my point about his era.

Yes, there's more to the game....like 20+ rebounds and maybe the best defense ever played by any human ever born.

Plus, I brought up Russell in the context of everyone calling Brady the best as a result of him having 5 rings.

Many feel Jordon is better than LeBron due to the rings.

I'm getting mixed messages on what the criteria is for judging who is the best or who at least belongs in the conversation.

If I had to narrow it to 4, it would be....

Russell

Chamberlain

Jordon

James

I'd probably put the Big O 5th, but maybe I'm biased.

[Jasonbay44]

Yes, there's more to the game....like 20+ rebounds and maybe the best defense ever played by any human ever born.

There's also offense, the most important part of the game. He was bigger and more athletic than most players back then, and still only shot 44% from the field for his career.

[StephenCurry30]

basketball was weird back then. Russell was an elite defensive player, who lacked offensive talent, but for some reason was still given the ball a lot back then. it would be similar to giving ben Wallace or dennis rodman a lot of touches. Russell is in the 8-10 range all time imo. rings aren't everything, especially when the Celtics ere ridiculously stacked back then. Draymond green already has as many rings as LeBron and if they keep the core in tack, could very well pass them, wheres we gonna rank him? Robert horry has 7. is he near goat?