By the same stupid logic, we had E-Rod go 19-6 last year and how far did we go?Originally Posted by Larry Cook
Think, period.
By the same stupid logic, we had E-Rod go 19-6 last year and how far did we go?
Think, period.
Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1
The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.
The Sox cannot go into the season with the same ramshackle pen if the goal is to win. You cannot expect Workman to replicate last year and the other dogs don’t hunt out there. That was immeasurably difficult on a rotation. It’s counterintuitive. If you’re the starter and you know the gas cans are being added to the fire in the late innings, you try to be more fine and perfect, leading to your exit sooner in the game due to pitch count. A good pen is the best friend of a starting staff. A bad starting staff is a terrible friend to a good pen as it burns them out.
Like with the Yanks this year?
There are many ways to win. The Royals proved you can win with only a great pen as their only clear strength. Other teams have shown they can win with great pens or rotations or line-ups. Most winners are pretty good to very good at 2-3 of the 4 major categories. Some have won by being plus at all 4.
Too many people say, "You can't win with a weak _____," but it's just not true.
Last edited by moonslav59; 12-06-2019 at 09:09 AM.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
That’s a good comeback. I always think these “Winning Formula Checklist” posts are dumb, but no one ever listens.
“You can’t win without an ace.” “You can’t win without a closer.” “You can’t win without XXXXX.” I think too many sports fans and sportswriters don’t understand the meaning of the word “can’t “.
The ace one always lead to the same argument.
Random poster: You can’t win without an ace
Me: What about the Royals in 2015? Who was their ace
Random poster: That was different. They had a great pen.
Me: That’s not different. That’s the whole fucking point!!
The real question in my mind is of the 4 recent Red Sox World Series winning teams, which ones represent strategic roster building that we can attempt to duplicate now? I'm still trying to figure out if the 2013 team assembly was the work of genius or just dumb luck.
I'll say one thing, all of those 4 teams had starting pitchers than no team from the previous 3 decades had.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
One of the Smart moves by KC was after they Traded for Wade Davis, and saw he wasn't cutting it as a Starter for them, they moved him to the Pen.
Davis went from a 5.32 ERA starter for them, to a lights out 8th inning Set-up man, for Holland.
Starters that are FA's who might have the great arms, just not good, in the Starting role, is a good way to take a chance, on making your BP better, without spending big.
Gamble yes, but you never know till you try. That's why I like Gausman, a role like this.
It was somewhere in between those two extremes LOL
Championships since purchase by John Henry group: Red Sox 4 Yankees 1
The Red Sox are 8-1 in their last 9 postseason games against the Yankees.
Ken, '13 was the perfect storm preparation for the perfect storm -- so rare that that many vets got on the same mission with something to prove the same year (plus, there was the common community bond). But vets with something to prove and/or a unit's last hurrah are what gives 2020 hope in this offseason. This roster has areas in need of improvement -- what club doesn't -- but any franchise would love to have our current core of talent.
The Bosox -- and most teams -- are never as good the year after putting it all together and going all the way; that's why no champ has repeated this century. In '76, the defending AL champs with all those young stars and established pitchers added HOFer Fergie Jenkins... and finished third, winning one less game than last year's Red Flops. When Boston wins rings, it's usually when no one expects them to.
Or Mike Wacha or Gabriel Ynoa...
Agreed on '13. But I did expect the Sox to win in 2018 once they signed JD Martinez. I also was very hopeful the 2004 team could push past where the 2003 got to. I thought they were the favorites going into the ALCS with the Yankees; it was only once they were down 0-3 that they became underdogs. Before 2007 started I didn't know they'd be that good.
Before the 2018 season, I was listening to MLB Network on radio, and Steve Phillips and Eduardo Perez and guests were playing a game called “Three In, Three Out.” The idea is to name 3 postseason teams from the year before that were not going to make the postseason that year, and name their 3 replacement teams, based on recent history.
The Red Sox and Twins were universal choices for the 3 out...
That is true. Even the years they went to the WS and lost, it was surprising- 1967 more than any.
I did think we had a good shot after the Nomar trade in 2004.
I liked our 2007 team, but after losing in 2005 and 2006, I wasn't super confident.
I thought we were playing it "halfway" (the term I used back then) in 2013. That was a surprise, but the whole "perfect storm" argument is not really true. The fact is many players had better seasons in 2012 or 2014.
I loved our 2018 club and was a believer from day 1.
The fact that our current team is not much different from 2018, other than injury histories, does make a strong argument for not "blowing things up," so that's what I think we'll just trade JBJ this winter, look to reset, but wait to the deadline to decide to make one last push or trade 3-4 vets.
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
When the '18 postseason began, despite their great regular season, it seemed no one but Sox fans believed they'd finish the deal. The Astros were favored in the ALCS, and a lot of experts were surprised when the Sox beat Verlander and Cole, and knocked around Morton.
It's not a dream to think that the same Boston core, if kept intact or even modified, couldn't do it again. Or to think that injuries, off-years and sophomore/junior/senior jinxes can't and won't afflict other favorites.
I see your point, but I just don't think all the things that need to go right will.
Although we still won despite Sale & Kimbrel not helping much in the playoffs, they were essential to us getting to the playoffs.
Kimbrel & Kelly are gone. Workman may be a good replacement for Kelly, but we're still short in the pen.
Sale's outlook for 2020 is worse than 2018.
Price's, too.
Eovaldi's, too.
No Porcello.
No Moreland, Holt & Nunez.
It's not really the same team. Most of the bid names are still here, but they are not the same. Can they be? Maybe.
Should we wait to see before dismantling the team? Probably.
Will we wait? Probably.
Will we all come together for one last hurrah? Highly unlikely.
(Just my opinions.)
When you say it's gonna happen now
When exactly do you mean?
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